Reward- Tired of the thiefs among us

Post by **RRO** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:30 pm

[quote="caribe"]When you have guides educating gumbies that it is OK to rip draws off sport routes under 5.12, quote]

really ?

Post by **Andrew** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:38 pm

Hey Brad, do you think the guide that Caribe is talking about is the same one that told you... well you know...

Post by **bcombs** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:42 pm

Could be... I have said to people that you won't often see project or perma draws hanging on routes under 5.12. That's a far cry from encouraging them to remove gear, but I could see how it could be escalated to that.

Post by **krampus** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:04 pm

RRO wrote:for a long time i did want to think that it was a gumby that just didnt know any better.

yeah, the fact that it was the crossroads where I have only seen locals out there, and that it was the anchors does indicate theft. Well its probably illegal to add a monetary bounty so I will just say "reward" for an explanation.

Post by **heacocis** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:08 pm

As a guide and newer route developer, knowing that stuff gets stolen AND hearing that other guides are telling clients incorrect information is really making me mad right now. To give some context, although I have only developed seven routes so far, I have already had over $100 of stuff (draws and quicklinks) stolen. Replacing this stuff just adds to the already massive expense of development. On the other hand, I have not expirienced any other guides giving bad info to the their clients, but it makes me mad to think about a guide breaking their professional obligations/ethics. So here are two ideas that may help both issues, as well as many others. First, simply take it upon yourself to inform/correct climbers when they are doing things incorrectly. Most of us probably do this already when it regards safety, but for example what about when people are being lowered through the anchors when they shouldn't be? If we all just politely mentioned something we could go a long ways towards ending this. Second, similar to Matt's original post, I think we should start naming people on here that are being dangerous or giving out wrong info. I do not mean start a blacklist or witch hunt. I am thinking more of the example given about the 'certain guide' - why not call the person out and make them take responsibility and defend themselves? Otherwise, it is too easy to hide behind the silence and continue to do such things. Thanks, Isaac

Post by **Jeff** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:14 pm

Glad I used loctite. Sorry you have to deal with this s**t Matt/Don.
Like you said though, more work once the quick links wear out.
If it's A1A you're talking about, we climbed it a few weeks ago but I can't remember if there was a fat link up there or not. Not that it matters.
Pretty sad to see this kind of crap moving into climbing.

Post by **caribe** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:50 pm

heacocis wrote:I am thinking more of the example given about the 'certain guide' - why not call the person out and make them take responsibility and defend themselves?

â–ˆ Well, I'd never do that. Furthermore I have a lot of respect for this person. I found the opinion weird and out of place. It was enough to vigorously debunk the bunk in public there and then.
â–ˆ Hell, I am not a saint. When people call me out on shit and they are making sense I just have to modify my behavior. This has happened to be a few times. I can defend the hell out of myself just because I'm me, but at some point down deep I know when my self-defense is not a winnable argument. All I have to do to realize this is to substitute me for them and run the scenario.

Post by **captain static** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:53 pm

When I started reading this thread I was thinking no way that it could be anyone on this bbs. Then when I read what was heard from the guide it opened my eyes. Still, I doubt that whomever is doing this, if it is more than one person, ever visits this site.

Post by **Cleveland** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:33 pm

bcombs wrote:
pigsteak wrote:I was going to leave a Frost steel permadraw with biner on clipping end and quicklink on hanger end on Malice at the Choco Factory.
You mean you can get them to call you back? Seriously, if you have a contact there that you could share with me, please do. Climbing companies seem to be so resistant to that whole "selling your products" thing. Guess they are too busy climbing.

Edited to try no to derail...

Quit stealing quicklinks you fucktards. They are actually expensive for what they are. After RRO gives you your beer I'm going to beat you up and take it. Then I'll pour it out, cause I don't drink. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Brad ill take the beer! And then kick the thieves while there down.

RRO-LET"S GET RED SON!

Post by **stix** » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:43 pm

This all just sucks! I don't understand why this type of thing happens. But then again if you have guides/educators giving out such ridiculous info then maybe it's bound to happen. as someone who eaks out a very modest living guiding in the red: 1) it wasn't me and 2) i would be extremely interested in knowing who passes out this kind of guidance while on the clock. i can only hope it was a sarcastic comment or joke taken out of context, though it doesn't sound like it. it's especially lame (or maybe lucky) that guides are saying this stuff at a crowded area like muir valley where other new participants may hear it and think it's ok. lucky someone was there to step up and set the record straight. thanks caribe for not being another apathetic pussy of a rock climber.

i just don't understand people taking shit that isn't theirs. i left draws on routes under 5.12 as projects and would have been dumbfounded had they been stolen solely because of the fitness level required on my project. fixed draws are also left on routes that aren't projects for folks but rather things they warm up on on a daily basis and don't wanna clean. if this is consistent for the area then it's totally acceptable and are NOT booty.

even when i do find an obviously legit bootyable draw/biner in the middle of a route i don't take it. i throw it on the anchor so i don't have to clean.

who really needs a fucking quicklink that bad!? Damn that pisses me off! the pain in the ass you create by stealing an otherwise nearly useless link of metal is nowhere near balanced by what you gain. i can't even see it from their shoes.

anyone that knows me knows that i'm all for naming names. the community is now so big that it's easy to hide in ambiguity. unless some climbers with backbones step up to the plate concerning all kinds of unacceptable behaviors this type of bullshit will quickly become the rule and not the exception.
keenan