If you don't have permission then you are presuming quite a bit - bolt holes are trivial in comparison to trails and parking, as far as access and impact go. That is what caught my eye at first - talk of trail days. That you all would build full scale trails on someone else's property shows you don't really care about the land owners. And, btw, the FS takes trail building very seriously, in all areas. You have to do environmental impact studies, and red tape like crazy.tbwilsonky wrote:why do people insist on comparing apples and oranges? 1) there is no single governmental or individual body we can piss off to close all the areas. the only area at risk is an area that wouldn't exist without the risk. 2) i don't have to "take routes down". i would never presume it okay to toss metal in someone else's shit. but brushing dirt off? meh. i'm okay with it. call it cavalier or what have you, but at least i can put human practice in perspective. 3) i wasn't inviting the world so much as i was trying to manage them. what the fuck do i care if a bunch of yahoos i don't know get off on some boulder problems i didn't make? my intent was to at least keep people hidden. was it the best choice? i dunno. we'll just have to see if the horrors of history come back to haunt the present.
tommy
And, you don't seem to have perspective at all if you think that posting a guide on the internet, then linking it here isn't inviting the world. It is.
New bouldering in KY would be great, and I would be psyched to check it out if/when it is legit. But, by deciding to publish an area, you now have the responsibility to make sure the right things are done.
And, Kipp, wrongs in the past do not mean that it is OK to do wrong in the future, you know? The whole of the red (just about) was bolted more or less illegally, we just got lucky that someone (SSS) stepped in and made things right with the FS and landowners, or we could have gotten the boot 10 years ago.