Kentucky Bouldering

[Wes]

why do people insist on comparing apples and oranges? 1) there is no single governmental or individual body we can piss off to close all the areas. the only area at risk is an area that wouldn't exist without the risk. 2) i don't have to "take routes down". i would never presume it okay to toss metal in someone else's shit. but brushing dirt off? meh. i'm okay with it. call it cavalier or what have you, but at least i can put human practice in perspective. 3) i wasn't inviting the world so much as i was trying to manage them. what the fuck do i care if a bunch of yahoos i don't know get off on some boulder problems i didn't make? my intent was to at least keep people hidden. was it the best choice? i dunno. we'll just have to see if the horrors of history come back to haunt the present.


tommy

If you don't have permission then you are presuming quite a bit - bolt holes are trivial in comparison to trails and parking, as far as access and impact go. That is what caught my eye at first - talk of trail days. That you all would build full scale trails on someone else's property shows you don't really care about the land owners. And, btw, the FS takes trail building very seriously, in all areas. You have to do environmental impact studies, and red tape like crazy.

And, you don't seem to have perspective at all if you think that posting a guide on the internet, then linking it here isn't inviting the world. It is.

New bouldering in KY would be great, and I would be psyched to check it out if/when it is legit. But, by deciding to publish an area, you now have the responsibility to make sure the right things are done.

And, Kipp, wrongs in the past do not mean that it is OK to do wrong in the future, you know? The whole of the red (just about) was bolted more or less illegally, we just got lucky that someone (SSS) stepped in and made things right with the FS and landowners, or we could have gotten the boot 10 years ago.

[toad857]

good points.

i think that the red guidebook really makes this place hyper-accessible. pictures, colored dotted lines for routes, descriptions, directions and everything... it seems to suggest that it's all 100% free, and for the taking, and has always been so.

the next version of the book presents a good opportunity to really hammer the access/respect issues...issues which seem a bit understated lately, especially at pmrp.

[tbwilsonky]

man, i have never seen such earnestness when it comes to the sanctity of private property. or such steadfast unwillingness to tease out the complexity of what we're talking about.

it's exhilarating.

[tbwilsonky]

or develop the next Little Rock City with crappy access, but just don't tell anyone.

agreed. telling people about climbing i don't own is apparently a lot like talking to people about my enormous indoor weed growing rig.

a bad idea.

[One-Fall]

Wes,

Loved the shout out to S-cubed. She deserves a TON of credit.

[the lurkist]

man, i have never seen such earnestness when it comes to the sanctity of private property. or such steadfast unwillingness to tease out the complexity of what we're talking about.

it's exhilarating.

What we are talking about is a choad morphing into a tool....
You have only to go so far as the last boulder guide where two other misguided boulderers thought they would introduce the world to their playground. Remember how that guide was received by the Forest Service? What was Phil's words of advice to nascent developers? Something about roundup and scrubbing lichens? Phil just couldn't understand how that advice could cause get such bad reviews in Stanton. Thanks again to SSS to explain it to both Donnie Richardson and to Phil. Access saved again.
Yet here we are 10 years later with the "Choad- The Next Generation".
putting in trails on private land?
If you want to put in trails do it on land where it is encouraged- like the PMRP. Fuck, the RRGCC would get you your own trail crew. Probably not as exciting as doing something illegal like trespassing, but I l think your energies can be channelled into something a little less destructive and more constructive.

[pigsteak]

hey lurk, you got to have your joy ride in yer youth...why you trying to act all uppity and disallow others the same freedom?

just so it is clear...we know with 99% certainty owners of 99% of the stuff we are bouldering on. 50% of the 99% has 100% landowner approval, but the 49% without approval is 90% of the quality problems...hence the hitch.

I agree..take down the guide..let's continue to keep it to ourselves for now.

And Wes, we are on the same page. I am the one who walked up to the closest neighbor's door, knocked uninvited, and explained our presence. he invited me in for coffee, so that was a start. Next, we took a 2 hour ride in his old truck checking out the rock he owned, and laying out property lines. For all the drama, I'd say we are heading in the right direction.

[tbwilsonky]

What we are talking about is a choad morphing into a tool....

the place in between the butthole and the dick becoming a dick? i think you are - albeit in a roundabout way - describing what we in the trespassing business refer to as a 'boner'.

but seriously. thank you all for your critiques and...ahem... helpful suggestions. despite my arguments to the contrary (none of which anyone has even touched really; aside from a fucking awesome boner metaphor) publishing the guide (temporarily) wasn't a great idea. in fact, it wasn't even a good one.

note: i'm not into building trails. in fact, i've never built one that trail makers would recognize as an actual trail. i am, however, not a fan of thorns. so i'm somewhere in between. i'd certainly not call it destructive (unless you have a thorn fetish), but calling it constructive seems sort of generous.

t

[Shamis]

Keep the trail day freaks out. I can't imagine anything that would ruffle the feathers of the locals more than a bunch of fucking yahoos building stairs and bridges all over the fucking place.

The locals seem pretty cool so far, but I can guarantee you that a bunch of jackass climbers speeding through the back roads with music blaring would piss them off, as would seeing tons of cars and lots of idiots yelling.

The roads to and from this place are narrow, and they have lots of animals and children roaming free. When some douchebag climber runs over a dog or a child, that'll be what kills the access out here.

[pigsteak]

I agree with Shamis.....this is not the place for dogs or cussing and yelling when you do or don't send....super low key.