Hey Sandbagger

[Andrew]

I am the last person who should suggest a grade because my extreme height and strength really skews my perception.

But here is my 2 cents any way. Each grade has variation to it, and it has to because of peoples individual strengths and weakness, but also because if it didn't we would have a million grades. As Heavyc said, there has to be soft and hard routes in each grade, but if a route clearly fits into a lower grade it should be moved.

[pigsteak]

andrew, by which definition? the average climber..male, 5'7" 140 pounds, shaggy hair and a dog?

[Green3]

Kind of a tangent, but a little related.

I didn't climb it way back when, but apparently the ground has worn away under Super Slab about 3 or 4 feet. Seems like a lot, but it came from a good source. The start is now quite hard. Instead of a small pop to a jug, it is now a huge move on some terrible feet. Someone who did the move statically, called it V-way too hard for a 12c. I talked to some locals who said they jump start it from the ground, though I'm 6'1'' and can tell you the jump start still only goes if your either really tall or a lot stronger than 12c.

I know changing the grade on Super Slab would be like moving a mountain, but is this something that should be mentioned in the description, especially if a lot of locals are jump starting?

I know Fuzzy got quite harder as well when the stump came out.

[SCIN]

From 3rd edition's description of Fuzzy Undercling:

“The ground has eroded significantly during the past several years and the cheater stump is gone from the base of this climb making the start very difficult for just about everyone.â€

[clif]

fuzzy, another great 10d

[allen]

I'm 6'3'' and that first move on super slab is a bitch of a long way away... make a cheater stone stack and call it even?

[ynot]

I saw little Ben make that jump to super slab. I've never seen a white guy jump so high. friggin impossible. There's another crux a lot higher. We watched him climb and Tony Fry says, He's off. A few seconds later he fell off.

[Green3]

Thought I'd mention a few climbs, like Super Slab, that had changed or were hard for grade. Don't want you to feel like you have to defend yourself or the guides. Somehow this thread went that way, I blame Pigsteak. Thanks for all the hard work Ray, I'm sure it's a thankless job, or second job even, a lot of the time.

[Horatio Felacio]

Kind of a tangent, but a little related.

I didn't climb it way back when, but apparently the ground has worn away under Super Slab about 3 or 4 feet. Seems like a lot, but it came from a good source. The start is now quite hard. Instead of a small pop to a jug, it is now a huge move on some terrible feet. Someone who did the move statically, called it V-way too hard for a 12c. I talked to some locals who said they jump start it from the ground, though I'm 6'1'' and can tell you the jump start still only goes if your either really tall or a lot stronger than 12c.

I know changing the grade on Super Slab would be like moving a mountain, but is this something that should be mentioned in the description, especially if a lot of locals are jump starting?

I know Fuzzy got quite harder as well when the stump came out.

a reliable source told me that it has always been the crux, and not much has changed since the first ascent. i'd also like to spray and say that i am 5'9, did not jump start, and it felt like a one-move boulder problem that would be on nothing harder than .12c.

[Horatio Felacio]

also, i feel that there are many routes that should be upgraded. such as, but not limited to: super slab, motha, and are the pies fresh.