Hey Sandbagger

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:04 am

hey sandman, if there is no whining, then why "agree" with a downgrade. why not leave them as is, instead of getting super exact....? why would glitters need a down grade if I am focusing on the quality and how much fun I am having? (btw, I am stirring as well, since I have done neither of those lines that ray chose to denigrate...but why let facts get in the way of a good argument...so let's continue)

does anyone ever call something "soft" when they can't/don't send it? or would that also hurt the ego? usually we call it choss or poor bolt placement when it kicks our hind end....

and ray, whom is this "lurkist" guy who comes on here and acts like he is old hat around here....He uses secret clubby initials (CM, RM, Neal) to make sure folks have to access your guidebook to be in the know. My guess is you have given him a kickback in royalties.

Bam...nuttin.

Post by **lena_chita** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:14 am

I thought Budda Hole has been .11d for a long time already.

And I haven't even sent Supafly yet, but I felt it was soft for the .12b grade. If you ask yourself: is it harder than Chainsaw? --can you honestly say that it is? I don't think so.

Post by **Wes** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:16 am

Hopefully, this is just the opening round of grade adjustment. Always better to do a "hard" 12a, than a "soft" 12b, etc...

Post by **rustyvasectomy** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:30 am

nagypapa and thanatopsis are probably the same. thanatopsis has a harder move but nagy is way more sustained. both way harder than god's own stone tho.

Post by **the lurkist** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:38 am

my two cents.... there should be a few standard bearer 12a's and a clear eyed comparison of other routes that might approach the grade to that standard. If there is any doubt- 11d. Nothing more proud than having a strong stable of 11d's.
I think, for example, Supafly stands up to the standard of the Teen or Chainsaw or Ale 8 One. Ethics Police doesn't. It is a good 11d. Strong for the grade. But that is what you want. Not to take away from anyone's achievement, but when someone does 12a in the Red, they know they have done something.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:39 am

I agree with rusty...from the vids nagy has a harder move fo so....oops, I mean thanny does...peace.

Post by **the lurkist** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:57 am

yeah, piggie, me too. from watching the vids, nagy felt way harder than the topsis.

Post by **bentley** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:29 am

cold crappy weekends make for fun stuff on the message board!
This is great!

This one time at band camp.....

Post by **mike_anderson** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:13 am

I agree with piggy...if it's "all for fun", then why go to the trouble of downgrading routes well below your ability just to piss on someone's birthday? I agree Jesus is easier than Herd, but I'm not such an expert of the nuances of mid-5.12 to unilaterally pinpoint the grade. I thought Supafly was fairly solid, and I've seen a few climbers fail on it that are pretty solid at 12a.

Funny that Hugh mentioned a 12b (Ale 8) to compare Supafly to, or will that be down-rated too?

P.S. Nagy was upgraded to 14a in my book two months ago.

Post by **Lateralus** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:12 am

Check Your Grip 11d
Stay the Hand (big fingers might be a good lame excuse) 11d