caribe wrote:Someone has to talk to the FS. It seems like the relationship between the RRGCC and the FS is distant and cold at best. We really need to do something legally about Funk Rock and a few other places in the red.
Actually, the relationship is pretty good - way, way better then is was before. And that is because Shannon, Bill and others spent a hella lot of time working on it. And, out of respect of that effort, is why I decided not to do the stealth rebolting - it will be above board, or I won't be doing it.
Wilderness areas like FRC have very strong federal laws that need to be considered, but, there is some hope that battery powered drills might be able to be used. Anyway, just because it is there, doesn't mean it has to be climbed. Kinda that entitlement thing again, I guess.
I know I have posted about this somewhere in another thread but Shannon & I made a direct presentation to District Ranger, Dave Manner, about applying for an exemption to allow us to re-bolt in the Wilderness with power drills for safety reasons. His response was basically don't waste your time. He said that he had pursued something similar for the Forest Service itself to use power equipment to perform needed maintenance in Clifty for safety reasons and was turned down. The Forest Service, NPS, etc. are institutionally committed to Wilderness ideals at a high level.
I personally think us climbers as a community need to pursue how we can maintain the fixed anchors in Clifty in a manner that meets or exceeds the ideals of the Wilderness Act.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
Wes wrote:
I have long pondered stealth rebolting there, but don't think I will. If the FS doesn't allow power tools, then "someone" needs to get in there with a hand drill, or we can let the routes decay to the point that the need to be closed.
Fair enough, but my understanding is that aside from being a huge pain in the ass, hand drilled bolts are not as secure. And if it does decay, it will likely be closed only after someone gets really hurt or killed there. Do they really want blood on their hands?
And isn't a chain saw a power tool? Because I know trails are maintained using them everywhere....is this done in a stealth manner?
I've been a gumby longer than you've been climbing.
Wes wrote:
I have long pondered stealth rebolting there, but don't think I will. If the FS doesn't allow power tools, then "someone" needs to get in there with a hand drill, or we can let the routes decay to the point that the need to be closed.
Fair enough, but my understanding is that aside from being a huge pain in the ass, hand drilled bolts are not as secure. And if it does decay, it will likely be closed only after someone gets really hurt or killed there. Do they really want blood on their hands?
And isn't a chain saw a power tool? Because I know trails are maintained using them everywhere....is this done in a stealth manner?
They probably aren't as true as a power drill, but I think glue in's would be the way to go there, just because they last longer.
And, even the FS, NPS, etc are not allowed to use power tools, including chainsaws, in the wilderness.
I can say from past experience out west that for chainsaws even to be used in cases of emergency in wilderness areas, there has to be special permission given. Usually they're only allowed for fire fighting.
And hand-drilled bolts are inherently no less secure as someone mentioned earlier; however, it is more difficult to drill a good hole with a hand drill.
This might be one of those situations in which many hand drills make light work. The RRGCC might think about organizing a trail day in which legions of climbers are armed with hand drills and we go en mass to FRC with the worst bolts on the most popular routes as our targets.
caribe wrote:...many hand drills make light work. The RRGCC might think about organizing a trail day in which legions of climbers are armed with hand drills and we go en mass to FRC with the worst bolts on the most popular routes as our targets.
Millions of fingers!
Millions of thumbs!
Millions of monkeys!
Drumming on drums!
caribe wrote:Someone has to talk to the FS. It seems like the relationship between the RRGCC and the FS is distant and cold at best. We really need to do something legally about Funk Rock and a few other places in the red.
Do you even read the posts on here?
The theory of evolution is just as stupid as the theories of gravity and electromagnetism.
