My partner and I were climbing at Funk Rock on Saturday and some things came to my attention:
1. We were on Prime Directive (and yes, the on-sight was thwarted..CURSES!), and there were two Euros aiding Snot Rocket around the corner. During their "climbing" I started to hear hammering. My first thought was that they were pounding in some pitons... that struck me as probably something they should not be doing, especially on Forest Service land. Question #1: Am I correct in assuming pitons are not allowed?
I decided I should let them know it wasnt cool so I went over there to talk with them. Thankfully, they were not putting in pitons. I asked him what the hammering was for and the belayer said the crack was really small and could barely take gear so they were cleaning it. With the accent and everything, I thought maybe it was a bit lost in translation and wondered if they were just using Bashies or just trying to wedge a stopper in deeper. I started thinking about it and now i feel bad for not digging deeper in case they really were jacking up the route. Question #2: Should I have dug deeper and then dropped 'bows on the Euros?
Next issue is regarding the wonderful route by the name of 'Go Easy Billy Clyde.' Holy hell that is a high first bolt! my stick clip wouldnt reach it. it was REALLY easy climbing but that doesnt mean a hold cant break on you. And the fall would be nasty! its a sport route but says to use a cam at the begining...that sounds like a mixed route to me! Luckily, there were some kind folks that let me borrow a cam to give me the warm fuzzies up to the first bolt. Question #2: I know bolting is not cool on FS land, but can a bolt be added to an existing route for safety? Obviously the FA should be asked for permission first.
Also, when i reached the anchors, i was displeased to find some sh.t anchors. The hangers themselves were fine and are located on a horizontal part of a ledge. Then an assortment of rope/webbing goes from the hangers to the vertical part of the ledge. Many of them were faded and scary looking. I tested the set-up before i lowered off, but that is not a legit set-up and i dont want to see another tragedy like ben and laura. Question #3: How much does it cost to run chains over the ledge (about a foot or so)? If Wes/Team Suck will go put chains on it, I will send you the money for it.
Finally, The fixed roped and gear is still on Gyana Murda. I was going to climb and clean it off, but I didnt feel like punishing my skin anymore.... or maybe it was because it was too hard for me anyway.... =)
*Edited for spelling correction
Funk Rock - food for thought
Yes you can pound in pitons on FS land. It is not fixed gear, because they can be removed... pounding in pins on a free line is pretty shady though and I think that that should NOT be done. Pounding in a nut for protection is also poor form and should not be done. If that happens to much the line will be totally fixed, plus they are very hard to remove after the cables brake. It will end up causing a lot of damage to the rock.
I don't have haters, I have fans in denial.
Re: Funk Rock - food for thought
no you are not correct.Savage wrote:My partner and I were climbing at Funk Rock on Saturday and some things came to my attention:
1. We were on Prime Directive (and yes, the on-sight was thwarted..CURSES!), and there were two Euros aiding Snot Rocket around the corner. During their "climbing" I started to hear hammering. My first thought was that they were pounding in some pitons... that struck me as probably something they should not be doing, especially on Forest Service land. Question #1: Am I correct in assuming pitons are not allowed?
personal call.I decided I should let them know it wasnt cool so I went over there to talk with them. Thankfully, they were not putting in pitons. I asked him what the hammering was for and the belayer said the crack was really small and could barely take gear so they were cleaning it. With the accent and everything, I thought maybe it was a bit lost in translation and wondered if they were just using Bashies or just trying to wedge a stopper in deeper. I started thinking about it and now i feel bad for not digging deeper in case they really were jacking up the route. Question #2: Should I have dug deeper and then dropped 'bows on the Euros?
no - you cannot add bolts on FS land at all. you can only replace existing bolts. bring cams. when the boys bolted that, mixed routes were the ethic of the day.Next issue is regarding the wonderful route by the name of 'Go Easy Billy Clyde.' Holy hell that is a high first bolt! my stick clip wouldnt reach it. it was REALLY easy climbing but that doesnt mean a hold cant break on you. And the fall would be nasty! its a sport route but says to use a cam at the begining...that sounds like a mixed route to me! Luckily, there were some kind folks that let me borrow a cam to give me the warm fuzzies up to the first bolt. Question #2: I know bolting is not cool on FS land, but can a bolt be added to an existing route for safety? Obviously the FA should be asked for permission first.
report bad bolts on teamsuckclimbing.com. you can donate there too.Also, when i reached the anchors, i was displeased to find some sh.t anchors. The hangers themselves were fine and are located on a horizontal part of a ledge. Then an assortment of rope/webbing goes from the hangers to the vertical part of the ledge. Many of them were faded and scary looking. I tested the set-up before i lowered off, but that is not a legit set-up and i dont want to see another tragedy like ben and laura. Question #3: How much does it cost to run chains over the ledge (about a foot or so)? If Wes/Team Suck will go put chains on it, I will send you the money for it.
Last edited by Josephine on Mon Nov 30, 2009 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Unthinkably good things can happen, even late in the game." ~ Under the Tuscan Sun
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Seeing that Hugh used clean gear on the aid FA, using pins and/or bashies would be very bad form indeed. The use of pins or bashies is not de rigeur in Red River Gorge.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
OK. This was us practicing CLEAN aid this weekend, in the preparation to a winter ascent of the Diamond (CO). I was the belayer, when you came.
1. We did NOT have ANY pitons.
2. The route is apparently not climbed often, and the crack in the upper part, aside from being almost non-existent, was filled with dirt/moss.
3. After falling a couple of times on micro-nuts (#1 BDs), the leader tried to use his nut-tool (and a hammer - lightly) to clean the dirt/moss for better nut placement. That did work, but only for, like, 1 marginal placement.
4. We used 3 small slider nuts (Ball-nutz) to slide in the overhanging and very thin micro-crack in the upper part. After testing and falling on them, they were very hard to remove, and so, when we cleaned them, we had to bang (with a hammer) on the "ball" part of the ball-nutz (NOT the rock! -- but the brass semi-sphere - the ball) in order to move it relative to the stationary part of the slider-nut.
5. We paid particular attention to not damaging the rock. I don't think we did any damage.
6. In the upper ~ 5-7 m of the climb (which seemed like maybe a 5.10b/c), the crack does not exist anymore. It's just a vertical dihedral with edges on the sides, but absolutely no options for pro -- it's a burly runout with a potential hard fall on very marginal placements below. The only option for pro there would be pitons (in the seam). We did not use pitons, and we could not place any reasonable gear in that section of the climb.
7. The leader down-aided a bit, then bailed off 2 good cams from where the crack almost ends, cleaned some gear in the process, then we bushwacked to the top of the climb, and cleaned the rest of the gear on rappel.
I don't think - or I hope so at least - that we violated any rules.
But thanks for your concerns, which were valid.
--AK
1. We did NOT have ANY pitons.
2. The route is apparently not climbed often, and the crack in the upper part, aside from being almost non-existent, was filled with dirt/moss.
3. After falling a couple of times on micro-nuts (#1 BDs), the leader tried to use his nut-tool (and a hammer - lightly) to clean the dirt/moss for better nut placement. That did work, but only for, like, 1 marginal placement.
4. We used 3 small slider nuts (Ball-nutz) to slide in the overhanging and very thin micro-crack in the upper part. After testing and falling on them, they were very hard to remove, and so, when we cleaned them, we had to bang (with a hammer) on the "ball" part of the ball-nutz (NOT the rock! -- but the brass semi-sphere - the ball) in order to move it relative to the stationary part of the slider-nut.
5. We paid particular attention to not damaging the rock. I don't think we did any damage.
6. In the upper ~ 5-7 m of the climb (which seemed like maybe a 5.10b/c), the crack does not exist anymore. It's just a vertical dihedral with edges on the sides, but absolutely no options for pro -- it's a burly runout with a potential hard fall on very marginal placements below. The only option for pro there would be pitons (in the seam). We did not use pitons, and we could not place any reasonable gear in that section of the climb.
7. The leader down-aided a bit, then bailed off 2 good cams from where the crack almost ends, cleaned some gear in the process, then we bushwacked to the top of the climb, and cleaned the rest of the gear on rappel.
I don't think - or I hope so at least - that we violated any rules.
But thanks for your concerns, which were valid.
--AK
Last edited by ASK on Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I don't suffer from insanity... I enjoy every moment of it !!!
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Re: Funk Rock - food for thought
Effectively, yes, I think you are correct in assuming pitons are not allowed in the Red on an established line. That is not the way we roll. Pitons would change the sandstone forever. Thanks for taking the time and the effort to go out of your way to talk to someone. It sounds like they were being kind to our little piece of paradise though.Savage wrote:...My first thought was that they were pounding in some pitons... that struck me as probably something they should not be doing, especially on Forest Service land. Question #1: Am I correct in assuming pitons are not allowed?
You did well. I think you went over there and discovered that they were not jacking up the route and you were satisfied. Don't beat yourself up. Thanks again. There are written rules which can be bent and there are a bunch of other rules that we all know should not be broken.Savage wrote:now i feel bad for not digging deeper in case they really were jacking up the route.
Last edited by caribe on Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.