Antivaccintation movement people

Post by **caribe** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:17 pm

All we can do is pray that god shows the light to this anti-vaccination bunch.

Post by **ahab** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:58 pm

he already has, caribe. thta's why they refuse the devil virus. it's in revelations. man. repent or oink!

Post by **lena_chita** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:20 pm

Wes wrote:Couple more articles up at wired, but really, this whole thing is depressing, esp. the comments there and other places. Anti vac is like young earth creationism - people have a belief, and no amount of data or fact is going to change that. I take it to mean we have done a shitty job with teaching science, but oh well. I don't have kids, and I have my shots, even old enough for smallpox.

Yeah, i have a smallpox, too... But they kept it going in Russia for quite a bit longer than in the States, so don't make automatic inferences about my age from that admisssion.

And yes, some people have formed their belief based on a lot of scare-talking and nothing is going to convince them otherwise.

But on the flipside, I wish the data on vaccine reactions was more readily available for making informed decisions. In the absense of data, it is easy to talk shit.

I challenge you to do a search and come back to me the two numbers:

1) What is the number of serious vaccine reactions to any given vaccine in a given year, and what is it in terms of percentage of all the people who did get vaxed?
2) what is the number of people who did not get the vaccine, what percentage of them got sick with the disease that vaccine protects for, and suffered serious consequences as the result?

How about a lifetime risk of suffering complications form all the vaccines you get, vs. a lifetime risk of getting serious complications from getting sick with the diseases that the vaccines protect you from?

The numbers just aren't there, the data is not being collected in any meaningful way, the data is very hard, or even imposssible to collect in a meaningful way, there is no funding for doing these sort of studies in a way that they should be done, if money wasn't an issue, and if compliance, follow-ups and reporting were all done perfectly.

Post by **Wes** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:47 pm

First hit with google:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

Just glancing it looks like serious reactions are about 1 in a million.

Number 2 isn't even a valid question, since today unvaccinated people will be mostly protected via herd immunity. Look at the stats where there is no vaccines and that should give you an idea, or just wait til an outbreak hits one of the unvaccinated clusters in the US.

There are side effects, even very serious ones - but the risk/reward benifit is so skewed to the vac side, that it is just dumb to not get them.

lena_chita wrote:
Wes wrote:Couple more articles up at wired, but really, this whole thing is depressing, esp. the comments there and other places. Anti vac is like young earth creationism - people have a belief, and no amount of data or fact is going to change that. I take it to mean we have done a shitty job with teaching science, but oh well. I don't have kids, and I have my shots, even old enough for smallpox.
Yeah, i have a smallpox, too... But they kept it going in Russia for quite a bit longer than in the States, so don't make automatic inferences about my age from that admisssion.

And yes, some people have formed their belief based on a lot of scare-talking and nothing is going to convince them otherwise.

But on the flipside, I wish the data on vaccine reactions was more readily available for making informed decisions. In the absense of data, it is easy to talk shit.

I challenge you to do a search and come back to me the two numbers:

1) What is the number of serious vaccine reactions to any given vaccine in a given year, and what is it in terms of percentage of all the people who did get vaxed?
2) what is the number of people who did not get the vaccine, what percentage of them got sick with the disease that vaccine protects for, and suffered serious consequences as the result?

How about a lifetime risk of suffering complications form all the vaccines you get, vs. a lifetime risk of getting serious complications from getting sick with the diseases that the vaccines protect you from?

The numbers just aren't there, the data is not being collected in any meaningful way, the data is very hard, or even imposssible to collect in a meaningful way, there is no funding for doing these sort of studies in a way that they should be done, if money wasn't an issue, and if compliance, follow-ups and reporting were all done perfectly.

Post by **L K Day** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:57 am

Thanks for bringing this up, Wes. I'm glad to see that somebody else is willing to rant about the general population's retreat from science. Consider the fact that there is a high degree of certainty that we will someday be hit with a repeat of the worldwide killer flu pandemic circa WWI. The current H1N1 epidemic has provided an excellent test of our ability to respond to this dreaded future event. It looks to me like we're failing the test miserably. H1N1 is here big time, and we're still waiting for the vaccine. If this virus was killing people like the flu did in 1917 people would be shitting bricks about now.

Post by **Saxman** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:07 am

Not all science is based on facts:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1

Post by **L K Day** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:29 am

Then it's not good science.

Post by **TradMike** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:30 pm

http://www.healthyalterego.com/?p=1136

Recently Dr. Mercola brought the following information to light:
A recent study published in the October issue of the Archives of Pediatric & Adolescent Medicine found that vaccinating young children against the flu appeared to have no impact on flu-related hospitalizations or doctor visits during two recent flu seasons. At first glance, the data did suggest that children between the ages of 6 months and 5 years derived some protection from vaccination in these years. But after adjusting for potentially relevant variables, the researchers concluded that â€œsignificant influenza vaccine effectiveness could not be demonstrated for any season, age, or settingâ€

Post by **Crankmas** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:45 pm

are you a good science or a bad science? were any nerds injuried in this study?

Post by **kato** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 4:59 pm

Oddly enough, science and rock climbing are alot alike. For every gumby running around spraying beta about a route they've never been on, there's a scientist doing the same thing.