pigsteak wrote:lol...fair enough camhead...fair enough. and I think we agree.....rjackson gets liquored up, next thing you know his twords are all wisted up, and he starts hearin alice in wonderland kiddie songs in his head. sad for him, he is a great guy and I like him. that should be enough to deter anymore people from coming around him.
Ok, ok, ok. I'll feed the troll just a bit.
What would you anticipate would be the reaction if you were to spray about any of your original scenarios around the campfire over beers in Camp 4, Miguel's, Indian Creek, etc.?
caveat number one. I don't climb trad, so of course everyone would know I am lying to start with.
but it is like someone alluded to earlier..it is situational. camp four and indian creek are different venues versus one pitch trad at the red. so at miggie's, a bit of explanation would be in order...at the other places, pack yer stuff and get out of dodge.
what do you say about my lynn hill on the nose analogy? really FFA or with an asterik since she used pin scars for fingers and clipped old gear..cheating for sure.
The analogy of Lynn Hill and the Nose is a relevant one, though in all of your cases there is very clearly NEVER a send on lead. At all. To take Hill's ascent further, she was not just clipping old gear and using pin scars, she actually used a variation that Ray Jardine had chipped with the overt goal of freeing the Nose. Jardine never freed it, but his "sin" definitely made it easier for Hill.
Another example on the blurry line between sport and trad: I think I linked this in another thread somewhere, but this spring I was working a route at the Gunks that had fixed stoppers the entire way out a roof. I left draws on the stoppers for half a day while working it, and it resulted in ten pages of people ranting about my "pinkpointing" on gunks.com discussion board!
lol..and as your tag line says..you got no send no matter what happened after that.
just remember most of us are too old or too weak to actually climb well, so we live vicariously thru others, and it is easier to drop a lead ball on their head than to shout "nice send brah" all day long.....
pigsteak wrote:thank you ahab and bcombs for helping me make the point. somewhere on here is a thread about this. somehow, somewhere, people think that they can go up a sport route, work the living crap out of the moves, and fall, say 15-20 times while working the moves. they come down, rest, and send next go. they then proclaim they did the route second try....nooooo, you did not, you did it on your 16th attempt....
easy there, you spoke of an onsite attempt. redpoints on the other hand...they can go down more ways than anti at the slade rest area during one of those 4x4 conventions.
rjackson wrote:...the disparity between trad and sport grades...
And I find it better to live vicariously through other climbers than through my children. Their lives are their own... and, well, climbers have no life.
Pick myself up, stop lookin' back.
Grand Funk Railroad
I'm gonna chime in on this one, new to the board, moved down to louisville from new england a few weeks ago.
Sources: numerous slide shows from the likes of Henry Barber, Lynn Hill, Ray Ramano, Dick Williams, Mark Synnott, etc.
So this is how many FA's and for that matter FFA's went down in the gunks and noco (north conway if you're not in the know). Climber A, lets call him Dick, leads up, pounds in the first 2 pins, gets to the roof crux, climbs up and down a few times, finally goes for the move and blows it. Climber B, Henry, lowers Dick to the ground or belay, depending on whether or not they are on the ground or pitches up. It's now Henry's turn for the FA, Henry ties into Dick's end with the first two pins clipped, climbs up, goes for broke on the roof, sticks, it, drives in the 3rd piton and marches onto the next belay. Henry gets the FA of that route/pitch, and since he didn't use aid the FFA. If he had pulled on a pin, or if Henry had fallen and gotten back on mid-pitch to finish the climb, it would have been dubbed 5.9 A0 and they nabbed the FA but not the FFA. If it was a singular pitch it would be listed as FA Henry, Dick. If it was 3 pitches where Dick led p1 and 3 and Henry led p2 clean it be listed FA Dick, Henry. If there is no FFA written and no A grade in the description it's assumed that it was an FFA. If they had pulled on gear, and another party came behind them the description would be 5.10+ FA Henry, Dick FFA Lynn. If Al Rubin was acting as support crew on the 3p climb, hauling the beers up and sitting at belays, grabbing the 3rd ascent via TR, it'd be listed FA Henry, Dick, Al (look at our guide books, Al is listed 3rd in about 50% of ascents in the 70's).
The major point is Henry could steal tons of FA's if the Dick in front of him slipped from midway up the pitch. Dick placed 2/3 of the pitons and got no glory. This is the Vulgarian ethic.
excellent post. clearly placing the gear does not matter....in reality, a climber could top rope up to the last piece of pro, lead to the anchors for 5 feet, and get the FFA without ever placing gear.
another real gem out of this is that it was, wait for it....
ALL DONE GROUND UP! hence: real climbing, oh i mean adventure climbing, oh wait, i guess it's called trad now.
if they wanted a bolted belay, they either brought the hand drill up, or came back, rapped in and retro'd it. if anyone else did the retro-anchor without permission, even if sorely needed, it would get the CHOP in a matter of days. first ascensionist ethics all the way baby. p.s. kill ken!
