Trad FA's

[bcombs]

yes, because you can also climb 10 feet up a route, downclimb to the ground, start over, and still claim on onsite.

I gotta go update my ticklist, brb.

[SCIN]

I would feel icky if I plugged Black Diamond Cams into a 70 foot crack, tugging on them the whole way, and got to the top calling it an FA. If I did it in China up a 15,000 foot wall that had never been climbed because it's at 23,000,000,00 feet then maybe I'd feel okay calling it an FA.

[camhead]

So where are you getting your information? What's your resumé?

Cough it up dude. Share...

By admitting to being new, I'm just confessing that I wasn't around when Wiessner pounded pitons on High Exposure.

I'm getting my information from "not wikipedia." That's where. And your above information that I quoted is simply wrong; at least according to the informal style rules about FFAs that about every climbing area I have been to has ever established.

Here's a conundrum that you can look up for me: Say I am on a climb for the first time, fall, and crater into the ground before the rope catches me. Does that mean that I can get back on the climb, send, and claim the onsight, since I never weighted the rope or gear?

yes, because you can also climb 10 feet up a route, downclimb to the ground, start over, and still claim on onsite.

Nice! As soon as I'm out of this body cast, Roadside Attraction is going DOWN!

[ahab]

yes, because you can also climb 10 feet up a route, downclimb to the ground, start over, and still claim on onsite.

keywords: "downclimb to the ground"
falling ≥ downclimbing = fail

[rjackson]

SCIN - You got the FA but if you tugged on those cams, you'd have to grade it AID and then the next guy that comes along and figures out the moves gets the FFA. It's all in the details. Neither got the send, it's still up for grabs and bring glory and recognition like a pot of god at the end of a rainbow.

Camhead - Dude your sources are lamer than mine. "informal style rules from climbing areas" you got to be kidding? I'm guessing you won't find a genuine source that emphatically states that an trad FA or FFA, no matter the length, must climbed as a Red Point.

Maybe we should segway and talk about the disparity between trad and sport grades... that should kill this thread.

[pigsteak]

thank you ahab and bcombs for helping me make the point. somewhere on here is a thread about this. somehow, somewhere, people think that they can go up a sport route, work the living crap out of the moves, and fall, say 15-20 times while working the moves. they come down, rest, and send next go. they then proclaim they did the route second try....nooooo, you did not, you did it on your 16th attempt....

[camhead]

Camhead - Dude your sources are lamer than mine. "informal style rules from climbing areas" you got to be kidding? I'm guessing you won't find a genuine source that emphatically states that an trad FA or FFA, no matter the length, must climbed as a Red Point.

Maybe we should segway and talk about the disparity between trad and sport grades... that should kill this thread.

Oh, and it's "segue."

[rjackson]

Yeah, yeah. The punctuation and grammer "ain't" right either... I'm not looking to get published here, just make a few minor points.

Love the FACEPALM (lol).

But I also noticed that you are evading the research and opting out of supplying a reputable source. When I get home I'll see if I can find one (not some blog or spray) that will back you up.

And I reference the sport/trad grade disparity to bring the point (again) that trad and sport are different animals. No matter how strong you are or what you believe to be true.

[pigsteak]

I knew I could do it...4 pages in two days.....you guys are so gullible and SUCK too.....

[pkananen]

I think modern trad ascents in the red should define FA as all gear on lead, no pulling on gear or falling.

Historical ascents, big walls, multipitch alpine routes...I can see claiming FA with a few sections of pulling on gear.