Trad FA's

[toad857]

Are trad rules seperate from sport rules? Is there an FA here?

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE???????!!!!

EVERYBODY INTO THE BUNKER

[camhead]

I swear I am not trying to stir up anything, but had a question posed to me last week. Figured I go with community consensus since I had no idea how to answer. Here is the scenario:

Trad climber raps in and drill anchors for a one pitch trad line. He lowers and then topropes the line cleanly. Afterwards, he pulls the rope, and leads it placing gear, but falls at the crux. he is now lower than the crux, so he rests and then resumes climbing cleanly thru the crux, placing the rest of the gear and clipping the chains.

Second scenario: instead of rapping in to drill, he leads up the crack and tops out, falling only once in the ascent. He raps from a tree to put anchors at the proper place, and then his buddy cleanly TR's the new pitch. Either one or both get the FA?

Are trad rules seperate from sport rules? Is there an FA here?

I have run this entire post through the FA scanner four times, and it detects absolutely zero trace of FA anywhere.

I did belay a low-level "pro climber" in Yosemite years ago who was working on a single pitch trad line. He kept falling, so finally he lowered down to what he called a "no-hands stance," sent the route from there, and called it good. It made it into "Hot Flashes" the next month. Lame.

[rjackson]

In climbing, a first ascent (FA) is the first modern recorded climb to reach the top of a mountain, or the first to follow a particular climbing route. First ascents are notable because they are the climbs that entail genuine exploration; the risks are higher and the challenge greater than for any later climber.
- FA definition

Since when must a trad FA have to coincide with a Red Point?

[cliftongifford]

"Many of the earlier first ascents, particularly for difficult routes, involved a mix of free and aid climbing. As a result, purist free climbers have developed the designation first free ascent (FFA) to acknowledge ascents intentionally made more challenging by using equipment for protection only." - Wikipedia

You by no means got the FFA... I wouldn't count it dude. Climb it free, then say you got it.

[Texas Pete]

FA

[rjackson]

I think all three scenarios saw FFAs as well.

There were no bolts (making it a mixed route), fixed gear (pitons or otherwise) or aid climbing (every move was pulled, not bypassed). The route was protected by gear and said gear removed after climbing (or posted here for Ahab to booty, ARRRRR).

[ynot]

if you are going to claim it before you send it you should at least make a note in the description that you didn't free it. I think you should go send that thing,you can do it. you put the work into it already.

[pigsteak]

was charlie at teh choco factory sent ground up placing pro? anyone actually know, or is it all rumor? the rumor I heard was preplaced gear.

[SCIN]

It was sent on pre-placed gear.

[rjackson]

So Charlie has seen an FA, FFA and Pink Point; but no Red Point.

Right?

Trad and sport are not the same game.