Pigsteak suggested that no one will burn in hell for bolting a crack. John Kennedy was quoting Dante when he said "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who in the face of moral dilemma maintain their neutrality". Maybe he was talking about chuffers bolting cracks, maybe not...
but to Wes' point about other routes that have been bolted that would have been or had already been done on gear, he makes the point. That point being- after a route has been bolted, everyone accepts it as is, a bolted climb. It is up to the guy who decides how it will be done initially as to how it will be accepted there after. Clif points out the Tower of Power, and I would add any number of other good hard routes that have been done on gear that are now accepted as that - bold gear routes. Will anyone go back and refit these routes? I think not.
Sport routes are rad, but bold hard gear routes are really rad. Step away from the climb if you are not up to it.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
i have talked to the bolters in question over this crack and they have decided to equip it in a new way... they are going to use glue in pitons. how this is done is a lot like a glue in bolt in a hole, but instead you put the glue packet into the crack and then drive a piton into it. after 24 hours it should be strong as shit.
it may sound a little different, but you have to think outside the box to advance climbing sometimes.
the lurkist wrote:but to Wes' point about other routes that have been bolted that would have been or had already been done on gear, he makes the point. That point being- after a route has been bolted, everyone accepts it as is, a bolted climb. It is up to the guy who decides how it will be done initially as to how it will be accepted there after.
wasn't AWOL a gear line called 'pocket protector'? wasn't pulling pockets FA'd on gear? why are these exceptions?
not trying to stir the shit (entirely) just love hearing about the history of routes.
ynp1 wrote:i have talked to the bolters in question over this crack and they have decided to equip it in a new way... they are going to use glue in pitons. how this is done is a lot like a glue in bolt in a hole, but instead you put the glue packet into the crack and then drive a piton into it. after 24 hours it should be strong as shit.
it may sound a little different, but you have to think outside the box to advance climbing sometimes.
Holy Shit. Glue? This is thinking outside the box. But advancing climbing? You might have to explain that.
Do what you are going to do MadMike but what is the point of asking the bolt or no bolt question? Then go pound it out and squirt the glue in?
the lurkist wrote:but to Wes' point about other routes that have been bolted that would have been or had already been done on gear, he makes the point. That point being- after a route has been bolted, everyone accepts it as is, a bolted climb. It is up to the guy who decides how it will be done initially as to how it will be accepted there after.
wasn't AWOL a gear line called 'pocket protector'? wasn't pulling pockets FA'd on gear? why are these exceptions?
not trying to stir the shit (entirely) just love hearing about the history of routes.
I think lurkist is right. It is up to the FA. The FA didn't care to deny people putting the bolts in (AWOL/Pulling Pockets).
so, the online guide shows porter as the FA on AWOL. was that the first on gear or bolts?
it shows tom souders on the FA on pulling pockets. was that on gear?
Ron Snider and Matt (forget his last name) did the FA of AWOL. It went to the top. It was on gear. circa 1989
Tom Souders did PP on gear with a bolt placed on lead (that old first sketch bolt) with gear the rest of the way.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
JR wrote:I think lurkist is right. It is up to the FA. The FA didn't care to deny people putting the bolts in (AWOL/Pulling Pockets).
so ron snider and tom souders were personally asked if it was ok to bolt these routes? if they were not, would that not deem them choppable?
i'm not saying they weren't asked, but it seems unlikely that a guy like souders would aprove of bolting a climb that had been freed on gear.
