tutugirl wrote:I would leave them the way they are rated...people are climbing there and it is private land. Let the Rick be the one who decides to change it. Personally if a new person come to my land to climb I rather him get on something he thought it was easier than getting in something they might get hurt because of the grading. It is all climbing and who cares about the grade.
I can't speak for Rick but knowing him I don't really think he cares to keep up with what's soft and what's hard. He has bigger fish to fry like handling several hundred visitors a week. Getting the grades straight on new lines is up to the climbing community.
Nobody likes their crag or route to be considered soft. Who wants the Red to go on the map as a "soft" crag? Personally I'd rather be accurate or on the hard end of things with the ratings here. If a crag continually has routes that are 1 to 2 letter grades higher than what they should be it'll get a reputation as being soft. That's what happened to Muir. There are some super stiff lines there for sure (mostly 12s and 13s) but it sounds like there's a lot of softness in the 10s and 11s. This should be fixed.
Yo Ray jack dynomite! Listen to my beat box! Bew ch ch pff BEW ch ch pfff! Sweet!
tutugirl wrote:I would leave them the way they are rated...people are climbing there and it is private land. Let the Rick be the one who decides to change it. Personally if a new person come to my land to climb I rather him get on something he thought it was easier than getting in something they might get hurt because of the grading. It is all climbing and who cares about the grade.
I can't speak for Rick but knowing him I don't really think he cares to keep up with what's soft and what's hard. He has bigger fish to fry like handling several hundred visitors a week.
...like cleaning the restrooms and weeding the trails.
SCIN wrote:Getting the grades straight on new lines is up to the climbing community.
Amen. Consensus grading - certainly not me - should determine the ratings in Muir. You climb it; you rate it.
SCIN wrote:Nobody likes their crag or route to be considered soft. Who wants the Red to go on the map as a "soft" crag? Personally I'd rather be accurate or on the hard end of things with the ratings here. If a crag continually has routes that are 1 to 2 letter grades higher than what they should be it'll get a reputation as being soft. That's what happened to Muir. There are some super stiff lines there for sure (mostly 12s and 13s) but it sounds like there's a lot of softness in the 10s and 11s. This should be fixed.
Bingo. Let's allow a consensus, via Ray's on-line guide, to determine the ratings. To keep the consensus accurate, it would be nice to figure a way to throw out the ratings that are absurdly too high or low that are posted by folks with an axe to grind.
Thanks, Ray.
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
people with an axe to grind about Muir?....noooooo.
if the grades are too low in Muir, then everyone who climbs there is responsible for that. and if you don't climb at muir, then how would you know the grades are soft there?
some are soft some are spot on and some are sandbagged. In my opinion if a grade is soft and you send it builds confidence fir routes that are more solid at the grade. Muir is not the only place in the gorge with soft routes. Like meadows said the routes at de biblioteck are 11s and i find them hard as shit.
To get a real fix on the grading of routes at Muir one must consider the date of the FA. The first year we bolted Rick encouraged the development of 'moderate ' graded routes. Routes for the masses, the 'weekend warrior. Those that climbed 5.11 and below. Rick wasn't sure people would come to Muir to climb and like it! I remember several times Rick asking Tim and I if we thought Muir would be a viable venue! We'd look at each and smile and say to Rick: Build it and They will come. Build a big parking lot and stand back out of the way! Soft grades enshured the climbers that did come would enjoy the experience and have fun. These being why Rick enjoyed Climbing and what he had the means to give to others. The first year and half we camped in the old parking lots enjoying solitude and the experience of finding and developing new routes. By the second fall there would be 30 cars in the lot when we'd come out in the evenings and people standing around waiting for us to finish bolting a route! Muir Valley has become one of the most visited climbing areas in the country. Of course, being part of the world class Red River Gorge experience doesn't hurt. Also the routes of the last few years, highend-top quality, put up by Kip, Josh and others didn't hurt. Climber visits are certainly there. Like Rick and Ray have stated the community needs to step up, make an effort, form a consensus, get out and climb. Have FUN. Climb-Safe.
there's an "11a" at johnny's wall called burning bush that i swear is no harder than AWOL. that's the worst exmple i can think of. to be fair, some climbs at other walls down there felt solid so i guess it just depends which ones you go to.
