Yet Another Post about Dogs

Post by **SCIN** » Mon May 18, 2009 1:49 pm

My dogs were off the leash this weekend. They ran around like mad, we lost them a few times, came back covered in mud, rolled in some nasty looking stuff, chased some things (squirrels and birds), and had a damn good time. Took them home, gave them a bath, and they slept for 24 hours straight minus the bone eating and poop breaks.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon May 18, 2009 2:21 pm

um, scin, your dogs ate poop out in the woods. hope you enjoyed that good night kiss.

Post by **caribe** » Mon May 18, 2009 2:45 pm

Yesterday a hold broke under my foot. The debris fell to the left of my belayer. Some fist-sized chunks missed him by inches (he dodged) and others missed by more. Your 9 mo old might be dead in the same situation. Clear the emotion out of all of this and listen to reason. Climbers come with dogs. They will step on things on the ground. If the baby is on the ground, what turns into bad etiquette could become tragedy. 0-6 yrs. unsupervised is probably too young to be at the crag.

The 6 mo old is probably safer in a backpack on your back than on the ground while you are belaying.

I am not in favor of dogs that are behaving badly.

Post by **Saxman** » Mon May 18, 2009 4:28 pm

Maybe it is time to start carrying bear mace, for use against dogs and children.

Post by **Artsay** » Mon May 18, 2009 5:03 pm

SCIN wrote:My dogs were off the leash this weekend. They ran around like mad, we lost them a few times, came back covered in mud, rolled in some nasty looking stuff, chased some things (squirrels and birds), and had a damn good time. Took them home, gave them a bath, and they slept for 24 hours straight minus the bone eating and poop breaks.

C'mon baby...you forgot to mention we were at the oh so popular crag, Oasis?

Ray's just stirring the pot because I've kept him locked in his cage too long. Our dogs are good and we are careful where we go with them off leash. We hate dog confrontations and avoid them at all cost.

As far as a 6 month old at the cliff goes, that's just crazy sounding to me, *especially* having it on the ground without a third available to act immediately in case something happens (sorry Charmaine). But hey, I walk my dogs off the leash on the sidewalk in busy traffic using only voice commands and I'm sure folks look at me and think I'm being unsafe and risking injury to them. So it comes down to what the parent (dog or child) feels is best and within their level of control. In this example, if my dog didn't listen to my voice command and ran into the road and got hit, I probably wouldn't risk it again. My guess is the same will apply in Charmaine's case but what she chooses to do as a result of this situation is entirely up to her and I'm not going to judge her parenting. We all make our own choices in life and thus have to live with the consequences of our actions. This time the kid only got stepped on....hopefully there won't be a "next time".

Post by **Tunica Intima** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:34 am

I have a 2 and a 1 year old and would not bring them while climbing or leave them on the ground while climbing. I have nothing against bringing them out in to nature, but it seems they are there so you can climb. If it is you and one other adult climbing, seems like it would be pretty darn hard to watch a child, let alone 4. I have taken a hiatus from climbing, not because I wanted to, because I think its selfish for me to make them conform to my activities= climbing trips. I do bring the family down to the gorge for hiking and being in nature, which is much more family friendly, and I can focus on the kids needs, not my own! I used to bring dogs, sometimes on leash, sometimes not. I tried to climb where other people were not. When I come upon people or dogs at crags that suck, I get pissed, but I also can stay and be pissed or go somewhere else, as much as they can stay or leave, my choice, their choice! Just because we don't like what goes on doesn't make others right or wrong. Thats the beauty of choice. Just my opinion, bring your kids (not what I would do) if you feel its safe. If I saw you I would probably leave and go somewhere else, because I would be pissed seeing a 6mo old kid on a blanket on the ground under a climb, sorry just my belief.

Post by **steep4me** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:21 pm

There can also be a safety issue for the climbers if someone brings small kids and there is nobody else to watch them while the parent is belaying or climbing. I've been on lead more than once and had to clip to a bolt so that my belayer could attend to a crying toddler. Worse yet, I've been on a redpoint go, giving a quick look to my belayer for reassurance, before trying the crux, only to see the person digging in his pack for crackers for his toddler. Not a good recipe for safety. I think it is really only safe if you have a third person to attend to the kids so that the climber/belayer can pay 100% attention to what they are doing. Parents are touchy about this reality.

Seriously, if you are belaying someone and your toddler falls and face plants on a rock, starts screaming, etc.. no parent can pay attention to the belay in that moment, they have to attend to the child.

Post by **rhunt** » Tue May 19, 2009 2:13 pm

steep4me - good point, and the same can be said about dogs being a distraction for a belayer.

Post by **steep4me** » Tue May 19, 2009 2:26 pm

I think dog fights can be that type of distraction, but people are not hard-wired to respond to dogs the way they are wired to respond to their own offspring. I can easily ignore dogs while I am belaying (unless, there is an especially brutal dog fight--which I have not seen at the crag, but I think it is possible).

Post by **Shamis** » Tue May 19, 2009 3:30 pm

Small children should wear helmet + body armor if they're gonna be at that crag.

All climbers should carry tazers to handle any unruly dogs in the area.