Response to Injuries in Muir Valley

Post by **Danny** » Tue May 19, 2009 3:53 am

Gaar wrote:I've seen it too many times. If hand tension is applyed to the Climbers end of the GriGri, while trying to catch a fall, enough tension is lost to keep the cam on the device from engaging, Even with a hand on the Break side.

You dont have to be touching the device for this to occure.

Try in a CONTROLLED setting if you want to see what I'm talking about.
While under tension apply a "panic" squeeze to the climbers end, and a hand on the break end. Unweight the rope, and try to reweight the rope. There is not enough force to engage the cam. LET GO WITH YOUR LEFT HAND and it will lock

This is true and probably why most of these accidents happen. People grab the rope between the device and the climber and it keeps the device from locking. That is why most of these accidents result in a hand this is rope burned. The device doesn't need to be touched at all. A small slippery rope exacerbates the problem.

Post by **Tunica Intima** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:22 am

Is the problem that the dispatchers don't know who to send because of an unknown address or are medic crews having trouble finding the area once they are dispatched?

Post by **Tunica Intima** » Tue May 19, 2009 5:29 am

Jose I will do what I can to help you guys out, because response time is very important with trauma. Shoot me a message to let me know where this all stands, I will see if I can help.
Greg

Post by **weber** » Tue May 19, 2009 11:54 am

Tunica Intima wrote:Is the problem that the dispatchers don't know who to send because of an unknown address or are medic crews having trouble finding the area once they are dispatched?

Dispatch knows what unit to send, of course. But, they are not as effective as they should be in communicating to the responding units where the incident is located. This is a two-part problem:

Part 1: They are not always effective communicators and knowledgeable of climbing locations.

Part 2: Poor radio communications due to terrain. Even with repeater towers that are more than adequate for most terrain, when you get down into the deep gorges where most of the climbs are located, our VHF radios simply don't work. So, for example WCSART responds to incident at Roadside (despite the dispatcher not knowiing where this "Roadside Crag" place is that the caller reports) and finds that an ambulance is needed, VHF is zip, and either you send a messenger with Verizon cell service, which works part of the time near the "C Sharp or B Flat" end of the crag or from the parking lot back toward Slade. (Anyone want to donate an Iridium Sat phone?)

Post by **Meadows** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:03 pm

weber, Can you share that list so that we as climbers know how to give directions in the manner that the EMT would understand? I've been wanting to create something similar, but it sounds as though you've done so.

It's also something that would be great to get from Muirvalley.com, RRGCC.org and possibly this web site (if Ray concurs). If any additional info needs gathered or if it needs reformatted, just let me know.

Post by **dhoyne** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:05 pm

Rick - thanks for the info.

As for the other discussion in this thread, here's my thoughts: people are purposefully using a device wrong because it's easier for them, and therefore their system fails. Big surprise. There's a reason why I don't like to be belayed with a gri-gri.

Post by **krampus** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:39 pm

Thanks Rick

as for the other discussion in this thread......just stop

......please

Post by **weber** » Tue May 19, 2009 12:46 pm

Meadows wrote:weber, Can you share that list so that we as climbers know how to give directions in the manner that the EMT would understand? I've been wanting to create something similar, but it sounds as though you've done so.

It's also something that would be great to get from Muirvalley.com, RRGCC.org and possibly this web site (if Ray concurs). If any additional info needs gathered or if it needs reformatted, just let me know.

Thanks, Stephanie, for offering to help to improve the EM/SAR communications situation. I think Ray would be happy to include this info somewhere on the site. And, it would be a valuable section to his guidebook. There's a high probability that one of his books will be available at a climbing accident scene. I'll send Ray and you the info I've compiled so far.

There are also other ways to help. And, one is to volunteer to become a member of one of the local county SAR teams. There is a real shortage of trained SAR techs down here. Anyone interested (especially with a WFR cert.) and who has time for about 110 hours of rope rescue training can email me for details and contact info.

Rick

Post by **kek-san** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:06 pm

So just a dumb question. Are the GPS coordinates in the printed guidebook? Do first responders have GPS's or maps with GPS grid lines on them? Might eliminate some location confusion.

Post by **kek-san** » Tue May 19, 2009 1:09 pm

So just a dumb question. Are the GPS coordinates in the printed guidebook? Do first responders have GPS's or maps with GPS grid lines on them? Might eliminate some location confusion.