Response to Injuries in Muir Valley

Post by **Artsay** » Mon May 18, 2009 6:33 pm

caribe wrote:Artsay: was your brake hand on the other end of the rope? How could this have happened if it had been? If it wasn't why wasn't it? If the brake end is unmonitored next time this could happen again.

Yep, I was in a full on break position but it didn't matter. The bulk of the leather glove was basically simulating me pressing down on the GriGri lever holding it open and the rope just whizzed out. If I hadn't had gloves on my hands would've been burned very badly. My gloves have the fingertips removed and my left thumb was burnt from how I was holding the rope, in all honesty probably the reason why I eventually let go and the GriGri caught.....and goes along the logic of "let go!". If you just let go, the GriGri will lock.

Post by **Wes** » Mon May 18, 2009 6:41 pm

Artsay wrote:goes along the logic of "let go!". If you just let go, the GriGri will lock.

This is good beta. Grabbing the front side of the rope or holding the cam down is the failure mode, regardless of break hand, etc.

But, Rick said he had burns on his right hand? So was he holding the gri gri down, but still had the brake hand on? Or is he left handed?

Post by **caribe** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:05 pm

You are messing with my world view.

If you use the brake on the grigri like you use the brake on any other device, even though the cam does not lock you should get enough friction with the two turns to arrest a fall. These stories are spooky.

Artsay wrote:
caribe wrote:Artsay: was your brake hand on the other end of the rope? How could this have happened if it had been? If it wasn't why wasn't it? If the brake end is unmonitored next time this could happen again.
Yep, I was in a full on break position but it didn't matter. The bulk of the leather glove was basically simulating me pressing down on the GriGri lever holding it open and the rope just whizzed out. If I hadn't had gloves on my hands would've been burned very badly. My gloves have the fingertips removed and my left thumb was burnt from how I was holding the rope, in all honesty probably the reason why I eventually let go and the GriGri caught.....and goes along the logic of "let go!". If you just let go, the GriGri will lock.

Post by **Artsay** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:06 pm

My guess is he was somehow either holding the GriGri open with his left hand or I have heard that standing a certain way can apply an angle the rope feeds into the GriGri that can inhibit the device from working correctly (Norma explained this to me recently and said that a guy in her gym can repeatedly make this happen). In either case, he was probably trying to break but a GriGri isn't designed to work that way so his effort just resulted in his hand getting severely burnt. Scary.

Two months ago I would've said this could never happen to me. This can happen to anyone and I've been telling everyone who will listen about my recent incident. Now I live and act as if it is dangerous to have anything close to the GriGri...whether it be a bulky jacket in winter time or thick belay gloves, if anything can get in the way of the device working correctly, there is possibility for an accident occurring. Now I keep everything away from it and keep both hands at least six inches away from the device at both sides.

Post by **rhunt** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:08 pm

caribe wrote:
trog wrote:my gri has a brake, hopefully not a break
Wow good for you Sid. Is it break or brake dancing? I can't spell for shit.
To avoid propagation and misunderstanding I edited my previous misspellings.

I second that caribe...

Post by **Meadows** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:09 pm

I started using the SUM and I totally dig it. The "belayer freeze" can't happen on this thing, but the problem I have is that it's hard to lower on a rope above 9.5 (which is great for a noob). That also means that we can't perform the signature "Lamb Descent."

Post by **caribe** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:13 pm

If we conduct experiments I bet that with the grigri
-holding the climber's end of the rope will lead to failure, period.
-holding nothing will lead to the grigri auto-stopping 99.99% of the falls--minus those that involve someone's reaction to 1) grab the climber's end or 2) hold the grigri's mechanism or 3) both 1 and 2.
-holding the brake end in brake position (at or around the hip) will lead to the grigri stopping all falls within experimental error.

Do it like Petzl says to do and all will be well.

Post by **rhunt** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:20 pm

Petzl didn't develp a device with the idea of letting go of the brake end of the rope was the way to arrest a fall. From Petzl website - "arresting a fall is done by holding the free end of the rope" free end meaning brake end

We have conventions in the sport for a reason. If someone needs let go of the rope in order for the grigri to work then they were using the deivce incorrectly.

Post by **caribe** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:22 pm

I respect Artsay's experience and her analysis of her experience. I am going to keep items well clear of the grigri mechanism.

Artsay wrote:Two months ago I would've said this could never happen to me. This can happen to anyone and I've been telling everyone who will listen about my recent incident. Now I live and act as if it is dangerous to have anything close to the GriGri...whether it be a bulky jacket in winter time or thick belay gloves, if anything can get in the way of the device working correctly, there is possibility for an accident occurring. Now I keep everything away from it and keep both hands at least six inches away from the device at both sides.

Post by **rhunt** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:23 pm

I am old and crusty - what's a "lamb descent"?