Risk Assumption

Post by **Pimp** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:46 am

Why dont you ask the ground critter

.

Post by **woodchuck008** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:57 am

let's all stay home, lock the doors, play it safe and don't go out or risk getting hurt anywhere. Oh, and have fun too!

Post by **charlie** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:03 am

krampus wrote:
Izzy wrote:As far as the shoddy workmanship of inexperienced bolters, the local community needs to have a clear and concise policy concerning who is allowed to do the bolting and the standards that must be met. As far as I know, the RRGCC and team suck keep a fairly close eye on the condition of hardware, other than that I'm not sure there's much else that can be done.
So what if some entitled euro comes and puts up a new line on the pmrp and uses bolts that are too small for the hole he drilled and someone dies on an FA attemp, or any attempt made before someone who is not technically responsible for checking every new rout at the red (namely the rrgcc and team suck) has a chance to thoroughly inspect it. Not to rip on euros, cus it could be someone from ohio too just as easily.

As an organization the RRGCC does not inspect or even comprehensively inventory route protection. We are not the bolt police, and imply no services in that regard. That has never been part of our mission.

There have been tens of thousands of bolts plugged into KY sandstone and there are quite simply no guarantees. In the end, you are your own babysitter. Make no mistake about that.

Of course, we are all climbers and do what we can to fix/warn about possible problems but you are responsible for your safety, nobody else. Maybe someone on Team Suck or some other some philanthropic equippers will fix a ticking time bomb here and there, but that's about it.

There are no guardian angels out there.

Shouldn't we be talking about poorly manufactured Aliens or something?

Post by **caribe** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:59 am

The climber assumes all risks.
___ The community is self-protective; we have a means to communicate about dangers in the Red; it is right here, the best damn public forum about local climbing anywhere! You go RAY!
___ I trip on people who climb in the Red and who do not monitor this pages. Ignorance is not bliss!

Post by **Izzy** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:29 am

I agree 100% Caribe, well put. Being proactive as a community about these issues is the best thing that can be done and this IS the best forum for that purpose. Perhaps there should be a thread dedicated solely to identifying suspect gear/bolts/anchors? Or maybe that's here already and I just haven't seen it.

Post by **Dman** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:16 pm

if your worried about the damn bolts climb trad or are you worried your gear will slip out to. hell no the equipers not liable you know what your getting into when you climb its going to be dangerous thats what makes it fun.

Post by **anticlmber** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:37 pm

climbing is not dangerous

being a dumbass is.

Post by **krampus** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:25 pm

anticlmber wrote:climbing is not dangerous

being a dumbass is.

exactly, and if a dumbass bolts a rout, he should held accountable should someone die as a result. Now weather he should get sued, well, most climbers have no money anyway. He should at least be exiled from the community. once again. to be able to blame the equipper, it must be shown that he screwed up the hardware and not just a matter of the rock quality not being as sturdy at it was when the rout was put up. Putting bolts in a hole thats too big is absolutly the responsibility of the equipper, and they should be held accountable.

Post by **anticlmber** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:50 pm

no, if a dumbass bolts a route that is whatever. however when the next person comes along and is either to dumb to know if something is safe(then they shouldnt be allowed out climbing by themselves yet) or too stupid(read egotistical) to realize its safe then the responsibilty rests on them.

now if you know you are a dumbass doing dumbass things and you convince other dumbasses to do the same then you are just helping us all rid the world of dumbasses.

Post by **bcombs** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:11 pm

The problem with the recent accident in the Blue Mtns is that the climber who was killed wasn't doing anything that could be considered being a dumbass. He saw a new line, with shiny new bolts, and decided to try it out. After the last J&A Trail Day when you walked up to the new routes put in during the event did you execute a pull test prior to climbing? Why not? Those bolts were put in by dumbasses? They were being watched by experienced bolters, but in reality it's the dumbasses who were holding the drill.... and likely ovaling out the hole... and likely didn't know any better...

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should hold the bolters responsible, but to say that this guy is a dumbass because he trusted bolts without pull testing them first is harsh and not in line with reality.