Best 10's in the Red

Post by **Legion** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:25 am

Where is Upstream Swimmer in relation to MS?

Post by **SCIN** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:28 pm

Well, regardless, I think the routes at Muscle Beach will be great for where Muao Dib is wanting to get as far as leading ability. They'll feel like 10's for the average 5.9 trad climber in the Red and they're probably some of the best routes of their grade around........pure crack climbing.
Muscle Shoals will feel like a 12 for the average sport climber in the Red though!

Post by **Horatio Felacio** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:55 pm

Hey Ray! Check out my do. It's that! Good ol' Horatio do.

Post by **StephyG** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:44 pm

Once, In the Red, I saw that guy Ra-y, getting it on with my moms dolls. In his hand was a full glass of what - - - are It was quite a sight!

Post by **512OW** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:33 pm

SCIN......I agree. They'll most definitely feel hard.......just because they are 5.8 or whatever doesn't mean they're easy.

Legion.....in my opinion, Upstream Swimmer is a little harder than Muscle Shoals. Again though, the technique for Upstream Swimmer is more straight forward..........less of a straight on crack. US is in a dihedral of sorts, so you have more options. I dont' know what the guide says about grade, but looking back, I'd say it's probably 9- ish. Learning the technique to float a straight in, featureless offwidth, is the only way to be able to accurately grade those types of routes.

Post by **Horatio Felacio** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:39 pm

"just because they are 5.8 or whatever doesn't mean they're easy."

what does that mean 512ow? isn't that the point of any rating system in the world, to differentiate between easy and hard routes? i'll be honest with you, i've never done a 5.8 that felt harder than 5.11. i've done hard 5.8, but it's still only 5.8. shouldn't you change your name to just ow if this is how you think? actually man, i really have no clue what you're talking about

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:50 pm

I believe he's talking about the 5.8's that were rated 5.8 when 5.8 was as hard as it got in the rating system, before it was expanded.

Post by **SCIN** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:52 pm

Man, who was that puss whipping on that 5.9 sport route up at The Arena in the Red River Gorge video? I wonder if he got off and said "That was easy" just like ol' Beta Bill used to do.

At a Billpoint was usually done on lead. I think the Huggypoint is even worse since it's done on toprope!

Post by **climbhigh** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:07 pm

[quote="Horatio Felacio"]

5.8 that felt harder than 5.11. i've done hard 5.8, but it's still only 5.8.

Amy and I did Wolfs Tooth at Lumpy Ridge, OW for 20 ft and then chimney for 70 ft or so. It was rated 8+ but it was harder than any 11 sport or V3 boulder problem in a number of different ways. I have known a couple 11 traddies get shut down by a V1 boulder problem, a 12 sportie bail off of a 5.4 trad. Its all relative to what you know.

Post by **512OW** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 2:44 pm

Horatio.....

Like was just said, it's all relative to what you know. 5.8 may be easy to you and me, but it isn't to everyone. I think 360 Melonchollies are one of the easiest tricks in skateboarding......that's because they fit my strengths.........that doesn't mean that its an easy trick.