You've got core strength? Not like this thug...

Post by JB » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:12 pm

Let's see: Outdoors, Bugs, Cold, No money in it, No fame, Involves hanging out with a bunch of idiots, hmmm...

Post by **woodchuck008** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 4:19 pm

the lurkist wrote:I know you have your finger more closely on the pulse of the urban black psyche than a consumate suburban white guy like myself, so maybe you can offer some insight into why dudes like this, who clearly have incredible fitness only dreamed of by guys like you and me, don't find their way into climbing.
Footwork can be trained (probably in one day in this guys case).
I am serious with this. Maybe climbing would not be his cup of tea, but surely a guy with his attributes would see the parallels of the fitness he has spent so much time training and sport climbing.

What's the mindset of the inner city black male? In Chicago area where 40% over age 15 have police or prison records, life is all about 'bassetball', hoops, street ball, endlessly shooting baskets, carry a basketball everywhere you go. Or just the ever popular gang thug' life, illegal guns, rap star view of life mentality, and drive by shootings, ( so DON'T take this guy to climb at Drive By crag).

Post by **512OW** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:09 pm

the lurkist wrote:I know you have your finger more closely on the pulse of the urban black psyche than a consumate suburban white guy like myself, so maybe you can offer some insight into why dudes like this, who clearly have incredible fitness only dreamed of by guys like you and me, don't find their way into climbing.
Footwork can be trained (probably in one day in this guys case).
I am serious with this. Maybe climbing would not be his cup of tea, but surely a guy with his attributes would see the parallels of the fitness he has spent so much time training and sport climbing.

Maybe its just because climbing is basically retarded. Becoming a climber certainly isn't gonna get you outta the hood... not to mention its about 4000 times more expensive than learning to ball or rap. They're "lookin" for the easy way out.

Post by **the lurkist** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:55 pm

guys, really... Do I need to point out the racial stereotypes you are labeling this guy with? I won't insult your intelligence and point them out, but will say that I would assume that because he has applied himself to such an extreme degree to develope the strength that he has that he would appreciate like feats of upper body fitness like hard sport climbing/ bouldering.
I would not assume that because he is black he is in prison, a criminal, scared of heights, scared of the cold, looking for fame, easy money, etc... but that he would want happiness and fulfillment in life no different than me or you.

Post by **512OW** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:14 pm

the lurkist wrote:guys, really... Do I need to point out the racial stereotypes you are labeling this guy with? I won't insult your intelligence and point them out, but will say that I would assume that because he has applied himself to such an extreme degree to develope the strength that he has that he would appreciate like feats of upper body fitness like hard sport climbing/ bouldering.
I would not assume that because he is black he is in prison, a criminal, scared of heights, scared of the cold, looking for fame, easy money, etc... but that he would want happiness and fulfillment in life no different than me or you.

Ok, heres my serious take on it. That type of working out is FAR more a social thing than "applying" oneself. Its like bouldering. On any given day there are 450 people in the boulderfield, and about 3 actually apply themselves. Those 3 probably LIKE bouldering. That guy probably LIKES what he's doing. Its an end in itself. Just like some strange people see bouldering as an end in itself... If he were introduced to climbing, he would probably not like it because its not his social circle. Lets face it, 90% or more of climbers are climbing because their friends do it, and its their "circle".

Post by **the lurkist** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:30 pm

I buy that. So, he works out because that is what he and his peer group/ social group does- like you say, much the same as why we drive to the Red every weekend. What else would we do.
Still, wouldn't it be interesting for a cultural cross over to occur. I totally get it that he probably would not find a like peer group at the cliff, people with similar back grounds and experiences and aspirations, and sense of self in a greater society. But that is too bad. Climbing is popluated by broad demographic, but also (now I am applying stereotypes) a demographic that is white upper middle class educated with sense of post industrial nihilism.
Climbing itself is something that everyone could get a rush from.

Post by **512OW** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:40 pm

Agreed.

Post by **SCIN** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:32 pm

Wouldn't the muscle mass required for core strength like that (as we see also in male gymnasts......the dudes with huge chests who do the rings) outweigh the strength to weight ratio needed for climbing on small holds? Controlling yourself like that dude does is different than pulling on small holds.

Post by **pkananen** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:41 pm

SCIN wrote:Wouldn't the muscle mass required for core strength like that (as we see also in male gymnasts......the dudes with huge chests who do the rings) outweigh the strength to weight ratio needed for climbing on small holds? Controlling yourself like that dude does is different than pulling on small holds.

I doubt he'd be an amazing climber out of the playground, but clearly he has a body with good potential to be a climber. I think you're right that he would get a climber's body if he climbed...but I still think he'd be better than 90% of the white boys out there if he trained specifically for it.

Post by **captain static** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:50 pm

You are right Ray. The gymnastic strengths probably apply more to trad than to sport / bouldering. This is going to be a not so subtle spray. I was considered a "weakling" when I was young before my family moved to Chas., W.Va. When we moved @ age 10 my parents enrolled me into a gymnastics program. Within a few years I was being coached by both the coach of the WVU gymnastics team and an Olympic coach and won the AAU All-Around Gymnast at the W.Va. meet. (W.Va gymnastic is very competitive, Mary Lou Retton was a W.Va. gymnast.) At age 15 we moved back to Cleveland and at age 16 I was introduced to climbing at Outward Bound. During college I continued to do both gymnastics and climbing. My college years were the height of gymnastics strengths (levers, handstands on the rings etc.) Such strengths are basically pushing strengths good for mantleing & OW. In retrospect on HCB I realized that was a time in my life when I was at the peak of my gymnastic strengths and had just mastered the trad leading skills. When I finally acceded to the path of sport climbing I had to work considerably to develop the crimping/pulling/jug hauling effort required for RRG.