Just wondering...

Post by **Sandman** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:00 am

I sort of agree with you ray on the first piece and downclimb comment. Ill give you that. And pigsteak... i understand where your coming from, but to compare having to place gear on lead and throwing a draw in real quick, its not the same!!!!, ive never been 20ft runout on a sport route, scared shitless, pumped as hell and looking for where to place my next draw frantically. I know where that is!!, the next bolt, its all laid out for yah. Not so on ALOT of gear routes. Sure... someones gonna argue that you can go do a splitter hand crack with a bunch of 1's and 2's, and thats not much harder than placing draws. Very true but Thats not a constant thing, its not always laid out there like that. It makes just as much sense to say, its not an FA with bolts pre-placed. But.... there suppose to be there...its sport climbing, your cheating to begin with. But trad climbing.... from my meager understanding, means placing your own protection....
If pinkpointing because cool, lets just bolt the shit. those dang ole' widgets and squeezers and cheap.....

Post by **Sandman** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:06 am

woodchuck, i wasnt talking about peoples personal daily accomplishments, or if they find it OK for themselves to climb on pre-placed gear. This is america, do whatever your happy ass wants.
What im simply asking is... Is a pinkpoint a real and valid first ascent.

Post by **Sandman** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:06 am

woodchuck, i wasnt talking about peoples personal daily accomplishments, or if they find it OK for themselves to climb on pre-placed gear. This is america, do whatever your happy ass wants.
What im simply asking is... Is a pinkpoint a real and valid first ascent.

Post by **captain static** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:09 am

There is no "triple P" (purely psychological protection") in sport climbing. I know that on more than one occassion I have thrown in a small piece, thought "triple P" and continued. I have also experienced falling on pro I thought was solid only to have it rip. Have been watching the vid of Beth on Meltdown, ticked placements, and gear duct taped to the rack. If that's what it takes to push it at that level it's Kosher to me.

Post by **Horatio Felacio** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:07 am

i'd say probably not...except the 1st piece thing. also, if you happen to leave a piece somewhere on the route that isn't hard to place, for whatever reason (lowering on a steep route or something, for example), then i don't think that's a big deal.

oh and also it depends on how hard the route is for you. for example, say climber A is a 5.9 leader trying to FA a 5.9, and climber B is a 5.12 climber. climber A tries to lead a route and hangs/falls, goes to the top anyway, lowers and doesn't remove gear to save time, and climber B easily does the route, then i'd still call that an FA.

basically, it's your call. if you have any doubts that you would not have FA'd the route because of a pre-placed piece, then it's probably not an FA. by listening to peoples spray and excuses for not sending, i imagine being that honest with yourself is hard for a lot of people.

Post by **p0bray01** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:14 am

Ynot speaks of wisdom again...I like spord. lol

Post by **Sandman** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:24 am

Captain: i like the triple P, but i prefer Speed Reducers (1or2 really shitty pieces of gear above a shitty piece, to lessen the force.)
Horatio.... thats a good point, but only if its a 5.12 *trad* climber, theres alot of people who can climb some 5.12 sport routes who would have a difficult time with the mental and physical aspects of placing gear on lead even on a 5.9 trad route. But i hear yah.

Post by **Horatio Felacio** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:35 pm

Sandman wrote:Captain: i like the triple P, but i prefer Speed Reducers (1or2 really shitty pieces of gear above a shitty piece, to lessen the force.)
Horatio.... thats a good point, but only if its a 5.12 *trad* climber, theres alot of people who can climb some 5.12 sport routes who would have a difficult time with the mental and physical aspects of placing gear on lead even on a 5.9 trad route. But i hear yah.

yeah, that's what i meant.

also, i miss you and want you deep inside me.

Post by **Crankmas** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:17 pm

just call it as it is- that thin seam at Pebble was worked until Funhog linked it, we used slider type nuts and just left them and basically worked it as a roped boulder problem each sess, then removed the gear to go drink beer- 5.11 thin seams weren't the norm for us back then so a pink-point FA seemed casual for us- nowadays you could probably just take a few pads and go at it.. route specific for validity sounds reasonable

Post by **SCIN** » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:54 pm

Sandman wrote:I sort of agree with you ray on the first piece and downclimb comment. Ill give you that. And pigsteak... i understand where your coming from, but to compare having to place gear on lead and throwing a draw in real quick, its not the same!!!!, ive never been 20ft runout on a sport route, scared shitless, pumped as hell and looking for where to place my next draw frantically. I know where that is!!, the next bolt, its all laid out for yah. Not so on ALOT of gear routes. Sure... someones gonna argue that you can go do a splitter hand crack with a bunch of 1's and 2's, and thats not much harder than placing draws. Very true but Thats not a constant thing, its not always laid out there like that. It makes just as much sense to say, its not an FA with bolts pre-placed. But.... there suppose to be there...its sport climbing, your cheating to begin with. But trad climbing.... from my meager understanding, means placing your own protection....
If pinkpointing because cool, lets just bolt the shit. those dang ole' widgets and squeezers and cheap.....

I was only comparing throwing a cam in to placing a quickdraw on lines that are completely dialed for redpoint. On my hardest redpoints I knew exactly which piece to place and exactly where it went. I even had it racked in order on my harness.