True, and maybe thats the reason that most of the people on here know little to nothing about Mark Wilford. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that he's known more for bouldering and alpinism than trad climbing. He's a badass... no doubt... but in terms of trad climbing, he never was a "hero" anywhere near the status of the people I mentioned... or 50 some others.L K Day wrote: Sounds like somebody who's never climbed with Mark Wilford.
slings
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
That may have come out wrong.
To clarify a little... I have the utmost respect for Mark Wilford, and for all the guys who share his ethical standpoint and go for it attitude. I think its a shame that they aren't as recognizable as a Ron Kauk or Jim Bridwell.... but thats life.
The ethical standpoint in question is just outdated, and difficulty would have been MUCH slower to advance if it had remained the stance. For the average person to try and emulate Mark Wilford, and believe that they can climb 12+X, ground up, without knowing the gear, is not just a little... but a lot retarded.
Not to mention, once even Mr. Wilford attempted a climb once, he knew more about it and the gear on his next try. And the next. And the next. Eventually, even his routes were well rehearsed and most likely racked accordingly.
To clarify a little... I have the utmost respect for Mark Wilford, and for all the guys who share his ethical standpoint and go for it attitude. I think its a shame that they aren't as recognizable as a Ron Kauk or Jim Bridwell.... but thats life.
The ethical standpoint in question is just outdated, and difficulty would have been MUCH slower to advance if it had remained the stance. For the average person to try and emulate Mark Wilford, and believe that they can climb 12+X, ground up, without knowing the gear, is not just a little... but a lot retarded.
Not to mention, once even Mr. Wilford attempted a climb once, he knew more about it and the gear on his next try. And the next. And the next. Eventually, even his routes were well rehearsed and most likely racked accordingly.
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
Racking gear really is pretty simple for Wilford, mostly because he generally carries so little. I think the reasons he may not be as famous as some others is that he's always been happy to live in Fort Collins, away from the major scenes, and that he's not much interested in playing today's number one climbing game. That's because adventure and style still mean something to Mark.
Whether it's been on the boulders of Fort Collins, a horror show 5.11X on the Front Range, the Diamond in winter, the Eiger -solo, or in the Canadian Rockies, or the Karakorum, Mark's heroic efforts are legendary. "Well rehearsed" would describe almost nothing he's done in climbing.
And yes, he's a badass traddie. But that's gotten even less attention than his big mountain exploits.
Whether it's been on the boulders of Fort Collins, a horror show 5.11X on the Front Range, the Diamond in winter, the Eiger -solo, or in the Canadian Rockies, or the Karakorum, Mark's heroic efforts are legendary. "Well rehearsed" would describe almost nothing he's done in climbing.
And yes, he's a badass traddie. But that's gotten even less attention than his big mountain exploits.
Most of my 'trad hero's' are completely unknown older climbers who will show up at a crag anywhere at the country and get on 11+ trad with no beta and send.
They are stuck in those grades because they don't rehearse routes, and many of them don't even climb more than once a week, but it is still amazing to see their ability to consistently tackle hard trad climbs and send. I think its a good ethic, though obviously not cool anymore.
They are stuck in those grades because they don't rehearse routes, and many of them don't even climb more than once a week, but it is still amazing to see their ability to consistently tackle hard trad climbs and send. I think its a good ethic, though obviously not cool anymore.
Shamis wrote:Most of my 'trad hero's' are completely unknown older climbers who will show up at a crag anywhere at the country and get on 11+ trad with no beta and send.
They are stuck in those grades because they don't rehearse routes, and many of them don't even climb more than once a week, but it is still amazing to see their ability to consistently tackle hard trad climbs and send. I think its a good ethic, though obviously not cool anymore.
11+ trad does not equal hard. It equals moderate.
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
Troof.... but that doesn't mean its hard. It just means that said whimperer lacks the requisite skill or desire to obtain said skill.L K Day wrote:Maybe so, but there's more than a few 11+ trad routes that would send climbers who say things like that wimpering home to momma.
No matter how you slice it, 11+ is only hard when its Liquid Sky, and even then its size dependant...
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
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woodchuck008
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11+ as 'moderate'...geez this just shows the real difference in thought, respect, ethical background, trad vs sport. Am I to believe that the upper grades increase on an exponential degree while the lower end is just a plain linear number? So 5.5 to 5.8 is sooo simple now to some minds that 5.11 'moderate' is the new version of 'moderate' 5.6 to 5.8? I don't think so. To downgrade the efforts of the 5.11 climber to being 'moderate' just because you spend your life on bolted 5.13's is a real slap, a put down to any climber who is NOT as cool, as hardcore as you believe you may be.
5.11 to 5.14 is a number gap comparable to 5.6 to 5.9. Sure it's a different world, a degree that may be unnoticable to many who see the 5.11 as tough as the 5.14 since both are currently out of their grasp.
Any number from the 5.11 range and above was, and is, still quite a bit more difficult than anything to be called a 'moderate'. If you feel that your are so much more superior at your level of climbing than the lowly 5.11 climber, well I feel sorry for your attitude and need for being 'someone' of importance in the climbing ranks. Maybe we really do need to use new names and clear adjectives like the Brits do...'hard, very severe, extremely hard severe', etc. instead of downgrading a known, accepted and understood number to 'moderate'. It's like saying to climbers "you'll never be as good as I am", because you plan on degrading the value of their achievement the closer they get to your little world. Yep, I don't send 5.12s but at least I enjoy every climb I do, no matter what the rating is.
5.11 to 5.14 is a number gap comparable to 5.6 to 5.9. Sure it's a different world, a degree that may be unnoticable to many who see the 5.11 as tough as the 5.14 since both are currently out of their grasp.
Any number from the 5.11 range and above was, and is, still quite a bit more difficult than anything to be called a 'moderate'. If you feel that your are so much more superior at your level of climbing than the lowly 5.11 climber, well I feel sorry for your attitude and need for being 'someone' of importance in the climbing ranks. Maybe we really do need to use new names and clear adjectives like the Brits do...'hard, very severe, extremely hard severe', etc. instead of downgrading a known, accepted and understood number to 'moderate'. It's like saying to climbers "you'll never be as good as I am", because you plan on degrading the value of their achievement the closer they get to your little world. Yep, I don't send 5.12s but at least I enjoy every climb I do, no matter what the rating is.
I've had the pleasure of climbing with some of the "old school" trad climbers who developed areas of the gunks. I really like climbing with them because for them, it's all about the climb and not the grade. Their rating of climbs is focused on the quality of the climb, type of moves, gear placement opportunities, etc and not about the difficulty. They certainly challenge themselves by looking for that new line and working through it, if it's not an enjoyable climb, don't do it again. The only person they are competing with is that voice inside. 