dmw:
1) the system we have now is not working. too many are not covered.
2) other first world governments have socialized medicine. their doctors are well paid. they also have high taxes.
3) no one would have to use socialized medicine. one could opt out. we have public and private schools. socialized meds could be like social sec. if you don't pay it you don't get it.
4) yes, pigs people that have fat kids need counseling.
dmw it must be lonely out there in WY with these thoughts in your head and fearing to share for fear of getting shot.
Obama
I am amazed that people can still be this uninformed about what Barak is actually proposing--which has NOTHING to do with socialized medicine. 
Socialized medicine = when the government pays for healthcare for everyone with tax dollars like in England or Canada. Problems = providers make less dough and health care is rationed by waiting lists rather than by cost. Rich people then opt out and go to the private hospitals so as not to have to wait.
Barak's proposal = nothing changes in the current system other than Barak gives tax breaks to small businesses that offer health insurance to employees. And, those who are currently too poor to afford insurance will have some insurance plans that they can BUY at a lower rate than what is out there now. This actually prevents the uninsured from using the emergency room for all of their health care and then defaulting on the bills. We currently pay for the uninsured who can't cover their medical bills--why do you think premiums are so high? Under Barak's plan, people who don't pay in now would have to pay in some. This is INSURANCE REFORM NOT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.
Socialized medicine = when the government pays for healthcare for everyone with tax dollars like in England or Canada. Problems = providers make less dough and health care is rationed by waiting lists rather than by cost. Rich people then opt out and go to the private hospitals so as not to have to wait.
Barak's proposal = nothing changes in the current system other than Barak gives tax breaks to small businesses that offer health insurance to employees. And, those who are currently too poor to afford insurance will have some insurance plans that they can BUY at a lower rate than what is out there now. This actually prevents the uninsured from using the emergency room for all of their health care and then defaulting on the bills. We currently pay for the uninsured who can't cover their medical bills--why do you think premiums are so high? Under Barak's plan, people who don't pay in now would have to pay in some. This is INSURANCE REFORM NOT SOCIALIZED MEDICINE.
Hauling a big ego up a route adds at least a full grade.
thanks for the update, Caribe. I really don't know what I am talking about. LK Day and his ilk are all around me here in Montana.... they skew my brains with their guns and ego. 
No, I do still think socialized healthcare is the best way to go.
And I wasn't inferring, that God FORBID, Obama is a socialist... so don't get so worked up. In my opinion, it is what needs to happen, bc I am not sure even Obama's plan is going to really work.
No, I do still think socialized healthcare is the best way to go.
And I wasn't inferring, that God FORBID, Obama is a socialist... so don't get so worked up. In my opinion, it is what needs to happen, bc I am not sure even Obama's plan is going to really work.
I am doing my annual benefits enrollment right now. Every job I have ever taken since finishing graduate school has been in large part because of the health insurance benefits for my son, who has major pre-existing conditions. I pay through the nose for this coverage. Step one of the process and I am blown away... not only did the monthly cost (and the deductible) go up, the monthly cost DOUBLED. I shit you not. Yet my biggest concern is not being able to afford this. While it sucks, I can manage it. (Who needs to eat?) My biggest concern is what the hell my son will do when he is no longer eligible for my insurance. How will he afford it? This terrifies me, actually. There are plenty of others out there just like him, too. It's a travesty that there are people in this so-called great nation of ours who do not have health coverage because it is so fucking expensive.
[quote="pigsteak"]I can not give you 5 good and 5 bad reasons. my reasoning is purely anecdotal. and yes, it partly does have to do with losing money, specifically my wife's income. example: she receives bonuses for efficiency, yet medicaid patients are mandated by law to be seen one at a time. private insured patients can be seen 3-4 at a time. not a big deal, since she has the staff and techs to help.
I can only assume that fully socialized medicine would take away choice of providers, but maybe not. I guess it is in my upbringing. There is something inside of me that grimaces at giving anything to anyone for free. now, if there is a tradeoff for the healthcare, then I am cool with it.
Example: if we provide a low income lady with healthcare for her kids, then by god she should be prohibited from buying Cheetos, soda, and candy for the kids. Child hood obesity is epidemic, and it is out moral resaponsibility to do something. Soooo, I say if families get free healthcare, then we make PE classes mandatory in school as well for the kids. get my drift? If you smoke or are grossly obese, you must drop 50 pounds and quit smoking to be covered.
where am I going wrong in that assessment?
isn't this similar to how we feel about the southern region and payments? if folks aren't helping with payments or trail work, we cring when they make statements about the land.....[/quote]
I think the logic here is good, but the fact is you already pay for all the fatasses eating cheetos in your high premiums. Perhaps we should bet some health food in schools and ditch the sodas.
We don't have choices in care in general anyways. HMO's make those decisions for us all the time. My wife and I had to go to UK to have a baby because our insurance financially mandated it.
These arguments all seem pretty bunk to me. Though I definitely understand the anxiety about a government run health care program.
The funny thing in the whole socialism talk during the election is the way that Northern European countries (like sweden for example) were held up as some evil empires. They are not exactly the soviet union and their populations are a whole hell of a lot healthier than we are and being less sick they spend less on health care. Taking care of our sick fat asses is a huge drain on the GDP. . . .
I can only assume that fully socialized medicine would take away choice of providers, but maybe not. I guess it is in my upbringing. There is something inside of me that grimaces at giving anything to anyone for free. now, if there is a tradeoff for the healthcare, then I am cool with it.
Example: if we provide a low income lady with healthcare for her kids, then by god she should be prohibited from buying Cheetos, soda, and candy for the kids. Child hood obesity is epidemic, and it is out moral resaponsibility to do something. Soooo, I say if families get free healthcare, then we make PE classes mandatory in school as well for the kids. get my drift? If you smoke or are grossly obese, you must drop 50 pounds and quit smoking to be covered.
where am I going wrong in that assessment?
isn't this similar to how we feel about the southern region and payments? if folks aren't helping with payments or trail work, we cring when they make statements about the land.....[/quote]
I think the logic here is good, but the fact is you already pay for all the fatasses eating cheetos in your high premiums. Perhaps we should bet some health food in schools and ditch the sodas.
We don't have choices in care in general anyways. HMO's make those decisions for us all the time. My wife and I had to go to UK to have a baby because our insurance financially mandated it.
These arguments all seem pretty bunk to me. Though I definitely understand the anxiety about a government run health care program.
The funny thing in the whole socialism talk during the election is the way that Northern European countries (like sweden for example) were held up as some evil empires. They are not exactly the soviet union and their populations are a whole hell of a lot healthier than we are and being less sick they spend less on health care. Taking care of our sick fat asses is a huge drain on the GDP. . . .
O'bama he Irish!
http://www.thailandspeed.com/Barack-Oba ... KoVek.html
a capella
http://opengardensblog.futuretext.com/a ... obama.html
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http://www.thailandspeed.com/Barack-Oba ... KoVek.html
a capella
http://opengardensblog.futuretext.com/a ... obama.html
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