red tagged

Post by **rhunt** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:09 pm

sendit wrote:are we still sore over blank canvas?

you mean "ivy league"

Post by **kisor740** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:12 pm

a year holly shit what do they have to do get some candles and sweet music to warm the route up to them screw that just grab ur tool and drill that thing theres no waiting a yr for anything i say a weekend two tops

Post by **chriss** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:13 pm

sendit wrote:are we still sore over blank canvas?

Pigsteak is probably sore about the routes people have done before him that he doesn't know about. I got on pistol gripped last spring, I figured kipp wouldn't mind if I didn't send. But it was so good, I couldn't make myself fall on purpose at the top. Oops.

At least my intentions were good.

Post by **pigsteak** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 6:02 pm

hey, OW manned up and asked if it was cool to get on Pistol Gripped, and I said no prob. So since he is the true FA, you'll have to take that up with him.

falling on purpose would have been lame. getting on it without asking was just more lame.

but then again, until this moment I didn't even have an idea you had the true FA, so maybe all was good...until now.

Post by **Myke Dronez** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:42 pm

Climbers should respect developers and vice versa- know when to hold and when to fold. Outta control hardpeople should just put up sick lines on gear. 8)

Post by **Andrew** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:41 pm

I am no kipp, but I have put a few bolts in. I made a significant effort to open the routes quickly, the longest one took two weeks. I actually felt kind of bad having a red tag on the route. One of my routes I even told some people to get on it and if they sent it it was theirs, but that route sucked anyway.

And yes kipp I am god like, and a year is too long, but if a red tag was on a route over a year I would still respect it. I might ask the bolter about it.

Post by **Toy** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:08 pm

It's says a lot about the sad state of this sport that this discussion is even taking place. Developer don't put those red tags up to remind themselves they haven't done the route. 1800+ routes and people still feel the need to pluck that one cherry just outta reach. Sad.

Do you all also bitch about/pine over that new McDonald's that ain't quite open yet because it's 50 feet closer to your house? You know the fries taste the same at both right.

Do you give 'em 30 days to get the doors open, and break in to steal ketchup packets when it doesn't open the day you want it to? Sad.

Post by **pigsteak** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:36 pm

how about this compromise. Let's say I bolt a route. You think it is time for it to become public domain. You contact me, and I will tell you how much money I would like you to give me for the hardware and my time. If we agree on terms, then the line is yours. You even name it. If you don't like the terms, I will gladly point you to about 25-30 other lines waiting for some sweat equity and some hardware. You are free to bolt those and open when you see fit. I'll loan you a drill.Is that fair?

Otherwise, I am having a difficult time understanding why people just assume these lines MUST be open under any timeline. Why not enjoy the process? You know, smell the flowers. Seeing blank rock, finding a walk up to hang a rope, rapping in, envisioning the bolt line, sussing out moves, cleaning and chalking, struggling to find the easiest path, and finally sending or going home in defeat....the entire process is part of the journey. why have it taken away?

Again, I am not even truly talking about the Red. I am talking about this line dave Graham poached in Colorado from Andy Raether. Dave named it Girl Talk. Seems to me that sucks if Graham sent it without Raether's permission.

Post by **512OW** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:56 pm

Dave had Andy's permission. Joe Kinder and Andy talked it out via telephone before Joe and Dave started seriously working on it. During the talks, Andy agreed to open the line.

No foul.

As far as I'm concerned, Chriss is correct. I respect redtags, but many people don't, and you may never hear about it. Someone may have climbed your project well before you... does it change your satisfaction to know that?

Chriss... if you did Pistol Gripped... have em change it. It doesn't matter to me who climbed it first, just that it gets climbed...

Post by **Brentucky** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:21 pm

rhunt wrote:The person who bought all the hardware and puts in all the hard work decides the rules....period!!

**Unless the land owner has his (or her) own set of rules about red tags**

any timeline is an "opinion," and those run all over the place just like peoples' levels of respect. rhunt and toy hit the nail on the head as far as i'm concerned. the only thing i can think that might be left out that matters is if a death occurs which would come to more opinions in which mine would be the route is open.