Of sport, trad and the point system...

Post by **rjackson** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:29 am

Oops.

Damn 'back' button...

Post by **Crankmas** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:29 am

Msmith, rest assured whether you stand or whether you sit you are corrected.

Post by **Curmudgeon** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:17 am

A given move on any rock is a given "difficulty" IMHO. If I can send a 5.12 move on sport then I should be able to on Trad. The fear factor does not count on Trad.
The Fear does not raise the grade, gumbies.

Post by **L K Day** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:33 am

Only 'cause you don't grade the fear factor,gumbie, others do.

And while you might think you "should" be able to make any move on a trad route that you can on a sport route, you almost certainly can't, unless you're on TR.

Post by **TradMike** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:40 am

Yes a 5.11 is a 5.11 and fear doesn't raise the grade either. But try some routes on devils tower. It's sustained climbing that forces you to place gear while in the midst of the crux. You have to blindly fish gear in a times from the most awful stances. It would be easy to have a bolt right in front of your face to clip. Quickly cliping a bolt while on 5.11 is easier than speding more time fishing in gear while on 5.11 and that is what makes it more difficult at times even though the grade is the same.

Post by **Josephine** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:51 am

maybe ray will give you the code to play with and you can write your own private program with point values that are assigned the way you like them. from what i understand having read previous discussions, he hard-coded the point values into the program so changing them is not a simple thing.

Post by **L K Day** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:56 am

It wouldn't be worth it, even if it was easy.

Post by **anticlmber** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:49 am

pigsteak wrote: most "trad" climbers are in reality folks who are lazy off the couch, want to be a part of the "cllimbing" community, but don't want to train to get physically better. trad is their cop out, or default.

ok, now we can lock. the steak has spoken.

oh shit pigass, that is the first time i have laughed AND agreed to tyou. i like trad for those reasons as well as many more things that are fun about it.

i think the complaining over the point difference is foolish. why not be angry that all the people ranked higher get out more often, or they train better, or that they are cool. points shmoints; just go climb, whatever you want.

Post by **ahab** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:03 pm

is the black text of trad ticks not enough to justify the physical, mental and emotional pain of sending trad lines? it speaks volumes, that black text.

Post by **rjackson** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:52 pm

ahab wrote:is the black text of trad ticks not enough to justify the physical, mental and emotional pain of sending trad lines? it speaks volumes, that black text.

It did not go unnoticed.

AND NOTE TO ALL I hope I didn't come off as complaining and whiney, I simply wanted to ask the question myself and get the feedback. And there is by no means any anger (but perhaps some pent-up rage, accumulated over the course of a lifetime and awaiting release on the rock, or on some poor fool that chooses to uncork it).

Excuse me, but I have been told that I must go climb now...