Weird Vibe
Jeff,
From my stand point, you ought to take more coffee tonight and start bidding on one of the 20 routes listed. That stuff sounds pretty powerful!
And then... wake up in the morning feeling better, but this time, take decaf.
SMILES
From my stand point, you ought to take more coffee tonight and start bidding on one of the 20 routes listed. That stuff sounds pretty powerful!
And then... wake up in the morning feeling better, but this time, take decaf.
SMILES
! Enough with all that detestation ALREADY !
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
Response to TrueNorth:
John: Do you really think, you have communicated properly? I assume by the term "you" you mean the RRGCC.
A: I would say, that given unlimited funds and volunteers we would like to communicate more and in a more sophisticated way. I also say that given the actual funds and volunteers, we have do everything in our power to communicate what has to be said. The RRGCC and its members have been doing a tremendous amount of work over the past decade that is critical in building relations with land managers. Much of that work has had to be of a confidential nature, so not every particular issue can or should be addressed to the general public. But the goals and long term planning have been stated pretty clearly to anyone who would want to listen. If you want "inside" information, it is up to you to get on the inside. The RRGCC has had dozens of "open forum" meetings where all questions are fielded and answered. Had you attended, I'm sure you could have been enlightened like many others have. There is no end to "educating the public" or "communicating to the public". Thus, the RRGCC could devote 100% of its effort to just communicating. But that would not meet the goals of the organization. Thus, a certain portion of the resources that we felt were acceptable have been put toward the goal of education/communication, but certainly we have other things to do.
Is everyone in line, ready to volunteer, donate money?
A: Obviously, no. I don't think you could get everyone in line to volunteer and donate money for world peace, much less climbing. If that were necessary, nothing would ever get accomplished.
Are they fired up ready to follow the RRGCC leadership?
A: I might remind you that "they" is actually "you". Don't shirk responsibility by putting the onus on some abstract "they". Furthermore, that sounds like some kind of campaign slogan. Nobody in the RRGCC gives one damn about who the leadership is on some ego level. Shannon would be the first hand over the reins to anyone else up to the task. Hell, if there wasn't a need, there wouldn't be an RRGCC in the first place. The fact is, that Shannon has devoted everything she has to the task and we have all benefitted. You judge her like she is some high paid CEO. Get a grip on reality! I know of NO ONE who would or could have done what she has. And you want to criticize her for what?
Do you feel it in the room?
A: The only thing I feel from you is a chill wind and a bad smell. What this question suggests is that leaders should wait until their "followers" go in a direction by themselves, then they jump on the bandwagon. Duh! There is little disagreement that climbers like climbing, they like to continue to climb, and they like climbing in the Red. The RRGCC is simply an organized force to accomplish these simple and basic objectives of climbers.
Can you pass your offering plate and your $ 350,000.00 be there when the sermon is done and the offering is counted. Hell can Shannon, go on and climb?
A: What? I guess you are doubting we could raise the money by donations. Obviously, we have looked at this very closely. Ideally, if we can do it by donations that would be the best solution. If not, we can always go to other options that are less desirable, but still workable. Selling lots to climbers, installing a campground, selling massive tracts excluding rock, converting to a long term lease, etc. have all been discussed and are probably doable. It made perfect sense to the RRGCC that we want the best option first, but if we are forced to accept an alternative, we can.
John Maxwell said, "A man who starts down a trail expecting everyone to follow and no one does, Is not leading, but taking a walk alone."
A: Well, fuck John Maxwell for not having a vision or a plan. I doubt if he ever climbed a big wall. Purchasing the Murray property is but one aspect of the RRGCC's plan, so keep that in mind when reading this response. The RRGCC "planners" haven't been burying their heads in the sand. Believe it or not, we think climbers like climbing, like climbing in the Red and apparently like climbing on the Murray property based on the number of climbers in the area on any given day. We think climbers want to continue climbing there. We know that climbers have a tentative and tenuous "permission" to climb there based on a few climbers (me and Hugh, eg.) talking sweetly to one son of the 80 year old woman who owns the property (Mattie Murray). We think that that doing nothing means that when Mattie Murray dies, her two sons will inherit it, and they will probably sell it. We think that unless they happen to want to sell it to the FS (who can only pay fair market value), and the FS wants to buy it at that particular time, the land will likely go to another private owner. We think that private owners in general don't like having climbers come on their land, build trails, put in bolts and create a lot of traffic. Thus, our collective wisdom reached the obvious conclusion that the area was at risk for climbers and that climbers would want someone to do something about it. Since neither you, nor any other climber stepped up, we decided to do something. Your quote suggests the RRGCC is going off half cocked down some unknown path with no support. I don't think you will find a climber that would say they don't want climbing on the Murray property secure for the future. So why would you assume they wouldn't follow? Are you simply talking about tactics and not philosophy?
I'm being serious; do you believe you have the support, the organization, and trained leaders and all the volunteers to pull this off?
A: Yes. But your support would make it a little bit easier.
Do you really feel my concerns are unfounded?
A: If you had raised these concerns a year or two ago, they would be founded. We all raised them 100 times over. But at this point in the game, I would expect you get informed before you form an acidic opinion or raise a concern.
John: Do you really think, you have communicated properly? I assume by the term "you" you mean the RRGCC.
A: I would say, that given unlimited funds and volunteers we would like to communicate more and in a more sophisticated way. I also say that given the actual funds and volunteers, we have do everything in our power to communicate what has to be said. The RRGCC and its members have been doing a tremendous amount of work over the past decade that is critical in building relations with land managers. Much of that work has had to be of a confidential nature, so not every particular issue can or should be addressed to the general public. But the goals and long term planning have been stated pretty clearly to anyone who would want to listen. If you want "inside" information, it is up to you to get on the inside. The RRGCC has had dozens of "open forum" meetings where all questions are fielded and answered. Had you attended, I'm sure you could have been enlightened like many others have. There is no end to "educating the public" or "communicating to the public". Thus, the RRGCC could devote 100% of its effort to just communicating. But that would not meet the goals of the organization. Thus, a certain portion of the resources that we felt were acceptable have been put toward the goal of education/communication, but certainly we have other things to do.
Is everyone in line, ready to volunteer, donate money?
A: Obviously, no. I don't think you could get everyone in line to volunteer and donate money for world peace, much less climbing. If that were necessary, nothing would ever get accomplished.
Are they fired up ready to follow the RRGCC leadership?
A: I might remind you that "they" is actually "you". Don't shirk responsibility by putting the onus on some abstract "they". Furthermore, that sounds like some kind of campaign slogan. Nobody in the RRGCC gives one damn about who the leadership is on some ego level. Shannon would be the first hand over the reins to anyone else up to the task. Hell, if there wasn't a need, there wouldn't be an RRGCC in the first place. The fact is, that Shannon has devoted everything she has to the task and we have all benefitted. You judge her like she is some high paid CEO. Get a grip on reality! I know of NO ONE who would or could have done what she has. And you want to criticize her for what?
Do you feel it in the room?
A: The only thing I feel from you is a chill wind and a bad smell. What this question suggests is that leaders should wait until their "followers" go in a direction by themselves, then they jump on the bandwagon. Duh! There is little disagreement that climbers like climbing, they like to continue to climb, and they like climbing in the Red. The RRGCC is simply an organized force to accomplish these simple and basic objectives of climbers.
Can you pass your offering plate and your $ 350,000.00 be there when the sermon is done and the offering is counted. Hell can Shannon, go on and climb?
A: What? I guess you are doubting we could raise the money by donations. Obviously, we have looked at this very closely. Ideally, if we can do it by donations that would be the best solution. If not, we can always go to other options that are less desirable, but still workable. Selling lots to climbers, installing a campground, selling massive tracts excluding rock, converting to a long term lease, etc. have all been discussed and are probably doable. It made perfect sense to the RRGCC that we want the best option first, but if we are forced to accept an alternative, we can.
John Maxwell said, "A man who starts down a trail expecting everyone to follow and no one does, Is not leading, but taking a walk alone."
A: Well, fuck John Maxwell for not having a vision or a plan. I doubt if he ever climbed a big wall. Purchasing the Murray property is but one aspect of the RRGCC's plan, so keep that in mind when reading this response. The RRGCC "planners" haven't been burying their heads in the sand. Believe it or not, we think climbers like climbing, like climbing in the Red and apparently like climbing on the Murray property based on the number of climbers in the area on any given day. We think climbers want to continue climbing there. We know that climbers have a tentative and tenuous "permission" to climb there based on a few climbers (me and Hugh, eg.) talking sweetly to one son of the 80 year old woman who owns the property (Mattie Murray). We think that that doing nothing means that when Mattie Murray dies, her two sons will inherit it, and they will probably sell it. We think that unless they happen to want to sell it to the FS (who can only pay fair market value), and the FS wants to buy it at that particular time, the land will likely go to another private owner. We think that private owners in general don't like having climbers come on their land, build trails, put in bolts and create a lot of traffic. Thus, our collective wisdom reached the obvious conclusion that the area was at risk for climbers and that climbers would want someone to do something about it. Since neither you, nor any other climber stepped up, we decided to do something. Your quote suggests the RRGCC is going off half cocked down some unknown path with no support. I don't think you will find a climber that would say they don't want climbing on the Murray property secure for the future. So why would you assume they wouldn't follow? Are you simply talking about tactics and not philosophy?
I'm being serious; do you believe you have the support, the organization, and trained leaders and all the volunteers to pull this off?
A: Yes. But your support would make it a little bit easier.
Do you really feel my concerns are unfounded?
A: If you had raised these concerns a year or two ago, they would be founded. We all raised them 100 times over. But at this point in the game, I would expect you get informed before you form an acidic opinion or raise a concern.
I LOVE YOU ALL! Structured bickering makes our relationship stronger (how's that?) Now, will you all leave Shannon alone so that she can go climb? I've harassed her about flyers not knowing about the effort she's put into this post yesterday. Thanks Shannon for your thoughtful, prolific response. Let the woman climb and enjoy!
Johnny, you're cute when you put aside your "the King" alter ego and get all snarly. Grr.
Sorry I missed all the excitement. Actually I'm not because Shannon will forget more about this stuff than I'll EVER know.
Johnny, you're cute when you put aside your "the King" alter ego and get all snarly. Grr.
Sorry I missed all the excitement. Actually I'm not because Shannon will forget more about this stuff than I'll EVER know.
Jesus only knows that she tries too hard. She's only trying to keep the sky from falling.
-Everlast
-Everlast
Johnny,
At the end of the day, people may have doubts, but I assure you that since we are all homo-sapiens that there is a little bit of love everywhere…and then we add climbing in the equation and it’s all good!
Show me the love, show me the money.
At the end of the day, people may have doubts, but I assure you that since we are all homo-sapiens that there is a little bit of love everywhere…and then we add climbing in the equation and it’s all good!
Show me the love, show me the money.
! Enough with all that detestation ALREADY !
Smile & be thankful for what you have.
Smile & be thankful for what you have.