Replacing draws at Sanctuary and Solarium

[weber]

Thanks for offering to help, Hugh.

...
So, the obvious question is, is Rick over reacting. Rick, I know you will take umbrage at this and react defensively, but I really think that maybe you are.
Look at the data-

(acting defensively and over reacting) I have looked at data.

...I have read that two other discerning folks have been up there (Sanctuary) and have failed to see the worrisome gear that you are concerned about.

Hugh, your "discerning folks" missed a few little ditties at the Sanctuary. I just got in from working up there. (6 pm Friday 5/2/08 )

To satisfy this over-reacting, defensive control freak, here's what I'd like some other discerning folks to help with:

1. Prometheus - webbing on last bolt before the top anchors weathered and worn half way through. The undersized 5/16-inch quicklink and this stuff needs to removed. I'll provide larger, stronger quicklinks to replace the undersized ones. The ring anchors look good, but didn't get a chance to check the bolts for tightness.

2. Hoosier Boys - Existing worn 5/16-inch quicklinks need to be replaced with 1/2-inch. One of these links is almost open - maybe one thread engaged. (In perfect condition, 5/16 quicklinks have a work load limit of only 1760 pounds {7.8 kN}) Please use nothing less than 3/8-inch quicklinks in MV. We prefer 1/2-inch as these are gentler on ropes.

3. Peace Frog - Top anchor is starting to fail. Wedgebolts were used, and the left one has pulled out about a half inch from the rock. Wedgebolts do not work as well in sandstone as we would like and are NOT permitted in MV. Quicklinks here were also 5/16-inch. And the two slings are faded and weathered. Today, I went ahead and installed two of the new larger Titt glue-in top anchors (8000-pound versions). After the epoxy is fully cured around noon tomorrow, a set of chains with 1/2-inch quicklinks will need to be installed and the old anchor chopped. I'll provide the chain and quicklinks. The new anchor will terminate precisely where the old anchor system terminated on the lower end.

4. Cherry Red needs a top anchor system installed.

All 5/16-inch quicklinks should be removed (probably by cutting as the threads are frozen) and replaced where necessary with larger ones. Saturday morning I'll have a battery-powered RotoZip grinder up at the wall. It can cut through a quicklink in about 5 seconds.

I did not check any of the other Sanctuary routes. And I may have switched descriptions for Peace Frog and Hoosier Boys. Didn't write it down. Hopefully, someone else will check perm. draws and let me know what's really up there. Today was eye-opening.

...none of these routes have been up long enough to see even long term project draws get hammered the way draws in the Madness Cave have been abused and are still being used.

I would prefer that MV hardware doesn't fail the way it has in Madness Cave and other places.

Rick

[512OW]

Rick, if you let me know what needs done, I'd be happy to go up there next weekend and do it.

I noticed the draw on Prometheus, and offered a draw to someone climbing it as we were leaving, but they said they had one to donate.

I didn't notice the Peace Frog anchor, but I don't know that I looked at the bolts necessarily.

Haven't been on Hoosier Boys or Cherry Red.

[Andrew]

Thanks rick for all the hard work, do you want to do some free maintenance elsewhere in the Red. I agree that at least 3/8th's quicklinks should be used and preferably 1/2 inch. They are really not much more.

[Josephine]

i'm really confused. i don't work routes with draws already on them (and if i do it's bec my partner(s) hung them for me) so that's probably part of the problem.

from the first post, i thought people were replacing the draws that had been left on the routes. but in the post there are references to "quicklinks" but not draws. are people removing 1 biner from the draw and replacing with a quicklink and attaching that end to a bolt - which would be like what i see in the gym? or are you referring to the quicklinks that i see when i get to the anchors?

also, am i correct in understanding that 1/2 inch quicklinks work better for anchors, but 3/8 inch quicklinks can handle the amt of force a climber generates as well - so those then would be ok for attaching a draw to a bolt? (if that's actually the case of what's going on).

i don't climb hard enough or know enough to do any kind of maintenance on these routes, but i can donate some 1/2 inch quicklinks to the efforts if that's what's needed - but i won't be in muir till next weekend at the soonest.

[weber]

i'm really confused. ... i thought people were replacing the draws that had been left on the routes. but in the post there are references to "quicklinks" but not draws. are people removing 1 biner from the draw and replacing with a quicklink and attaching that end to a bolt - which would be like what i see in the gym? or are you referring to the quicklinks that i see when i get to the anchors?

I'm concerned about all manky hardware - draws, quicklinks, chains, webbing... anything you hang your life on. There are all kinds of permutations and combinations of stuff up there on the rock.

...also, am i correct in understanding that 1/2 inch quicklinks work better for anchors, but 3/8 inch quicklinks can handle the amt of force a climber generates as well - so those then would be ok for attaching a draw to a bolt? (if that's actually the case of what's going on).

Won't say one thing is better than another; we just prefer 3/8 or bigger.

i don't climb hard enough or know enough to do any kind of maintenance on these routes, but i can donate some 1/2 inch quicklinks to the efforts if that's what's needed - but i won't be in muir till next weekend at the soonest.

Thanks, but we'll hope to have this stuff at the Sanctuary done this weekend. I'm supplying the quicklinks, glue-in anchors, bolts, and hangers. And tools, if necessary. Others can provide perma-draws.

BTW, to calm the wailing and gnashing of teeth by others on this forum, I won't be chopping any bolts unless they're being replaced by new hardware. Never intended to. My mom used to threaten to sell me to the gypsies; never thought she would. But she did get my attention.

R

[512OW]

Rick... are you SURE she didn't sell you to the gypsies??

[weber]

should have!

[weber]

Big Thank You to Kenny, Andrew, Noel, Ray, Michelle, Derek and others for fixing up the Sanctuary today! Still a little to do, but it's much improved.

R

[512OW]

I'm in for a Solarium fix up next Sunday. Anybody know any specifics that need addressed?

[Noell]

Big Thank You to Kenny, Andrew, Noel, Ray, Michelle, Derek and others for fixing up the Sanctuary today! Still a little to do, but it's much improved.

R

Thanks Rick - Craig checked the draws on 50 on his way down, took each one off the hanger and took a good look at them and he said they all look like they are in really good shape!

For Prometheus - we are going to make a special draw for that last draw this week, just like we talked about on Saturday.