Replacing draws at Sanctuary and Solarium

[Horatio Felacio]

...I want to be clear to everbody. I've never broken rules at Muir Valley and I don't advocate breaking rules. ...

Neal

bullshit. that is complete fucking bullshit. me and buster just saw ol' lander last week at the bruisebrother wall smoking a joint (marijuana) with all his fucking dogs in tow. he was even re-engineering bolt specs. to 37 ft/lbs, and handing out propoganda to all the fresh-minded jerries that are so easily brain-washed.

[Pete]

that said, is this discussion over? (please).


let's start a new thread to flame about something else at another crag... is Ro 11d or 12a? Should we chop bolts on Eureka...do dogs belong at the crag? oh, the places we could go.

[krampus]

So, I'll be the sheriff of muir for a dog pass, and a cool badge. I have my own hat though

[pigsteak]

just to clarify my position. Apparently the sheriff comment caused some concern. Rick did not ask me to be "sheriff" and my comment was meant to be tongue in cheek for anyone trying to herd/corral/discuss strategy with a bunch of scuz ball climbers.

I am 100% for resolving this issue, and all concerned climbers are asked to be involved. At the very least, I think 1-2 perma draws in the middle of a steep route would be appropriate to help with cleaning. If we attach them with a half inch quicklink with lock tite, no one will steal them. Not so sure on putting steel biners on top..that just causes climbers to be more lazy, and not climb/lower thru their own draws.

Ideas?

[SCIN]

Please leave the draws on Name Dropper. Thanks.

[caribe]

I would be willing to donate time + $ to the pigsteak plan. Strategic fixed biners on some routes.

[krampus]

I like permanent draws and think that if it becomes such an issue that rick feels he must step in then we should show our support and inspect/remove/replace what is needed, the way things are seems to be ok, only we need to respect when safety becomes an issue.

[512OW]

People haven't had to deal with this problem for 20 years. Where else do you know of a climber owned and operated preserve like Muir Valley? You don't. So stop talkin out of your ass. Private land is not public land.

um...the lode has been private since development started in 1993...and the madness cave was bolted in 1994... so, 2008 - 1994 = 14 years... so, for 14 years climbers have been "self policing" the equipment on private land. no draws have failed in the madness cave. same goes for the GMC wall, etc.
.

Exactly. The Lode is not climber owned and operated. Its a whole different scenario... the more common one. Thanks for helping my point along.

[Andrew]

Fixed gear have failed in the madness cave and on the Undertow wall. Sorry Pete. Just ask andrew or Jon.

[Spoonman]

Andrew caught John on Cut Throat after the second biner broke, scarry site to witness ....best catch of all time (andrew!).

One point i did not see relative to fixed draws is the issue of rope drag. Many routes get longer draws for this reason. Most people do not carry two foot slings with them. From my experience most climbs get policed by a projecter every so often. Not a thorough system, but pretty good.

Brian and i put the draws on Peace Frog, Best Friends and Voodoo. We loved the routes, know that most climbers like fixed gear, know that steep climbs are not fun to clean, ....& ......just never got back to get our gear.

Voodoo climbs better with long draws. If the consensus favors no draws -fine. If otherwise, i could probably fund new biners for one route, probably not three. I noticed the tape was off some of the long draws. I had hoped to get back and fix, yet being a long distance local during good temps, ..........has me climbing-not working.

Ohh...........thank you Liz and Rick, as always your generousity exceeds logic.