Hey people (dumbass, disrespectful, people, not the majority I hope), how hard is it to understand and respect a few simple rules on PRIVATE PROPERTY!??? Seriously, stay the fuck away and shut your mouth if you can't follow very few rules that hardly impact a beautiful day of climbing or hiking!
Although Rick doesn't know me, I have talked to him several times on hikes into Muir Valley and I have much respect for him as he is nearly always working to make the place better for both respectful and disrespectful people alike. I am pissed that he has to be pissed. Rick, although it is meaningless I apologize for the prior crap and the crap to come, but I hope you remember like you mentioned before that there are LOTS of people who do highly respect and even admire what you guys do.
I don't generally like to sound like a kiss-ass, especially not before the masses, but I for one say THANK YOU for your kindness! It is people like yourself who give unselfishly who make this world a better place.
Brent
Replacing draws at Sanctuary and Solarium
I don't climb at muir so I don't really give a shit but I guess there are enough rich climbers out there to pay for permanent draws on all them there routes. I don't really think that anyone is trying to disrespect the land owner but the solution being sought by ranger rick runs contrary to how people have dealt with the same problem for well over 20 years. If that is the way Rick wants it that will be the way it is done at Muir. The point is it can be debated over and over but if Rick wants it that way than that is the way it will be. I think Hugh makes a great point that it is unfortunate that all that money will be spent on those permanent draws and not on securing climbing in the Murray property. Just think how many people will be climbing on those draws if there is no southern region.
"I just want to disappear"
Very true.512OW wrote:Rick, every discussion is gonna have an idiot or two who think the rules don't apply to them. Ignore those guys, if possible.
Rick - There's so much love for you and Liz and all you both do. Please take comfort in that.
~Michelle
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.
Thats ridiculous. Any money I give to put up draws in Muir was not earmarked for PMRP use. I already gave to that, with no plan to give more than my monthly payment. I'm sure its the same with Ray and Michelle, Kipp, and whomever else. We wouldn't be taking away from the PMRP fund to give to Muir.
People haven't had to deal with this problem for 20 years. Where else do you know of a climber owned and operated preserve like Muir Valley? You don't. So stop talkin out of your ass. Private land is not public land.
People haven't had to deal with this problem for 20 years. Where else do you know of a climber owned and operated preserve like Muir Valley? You don't. So stop talkin out of your ass. Private land is not public land.
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
I'm 100% sure Lander was not referring to any route in muir as "his" route what so ever. he does not have the attitude that muir is an entitlement as some people unfortunately do.weber wrote:
"Your" climbs??
Funny, how Liz and I find and pay for the land, pay the taxes, surveying, and legal fees, pay to maintain it, and allow developers the privilege to develop routes with their unfulfilled promises to periodically maintain them, and these lines now become "your" routes.
when he says "your route" he's directing that to the FA of each route. for example, "yellow brick road" is "Lander's route" where as "Scarecrow" is "John Bronaugh's" route. i'm guessing most FA's have an attachment to the routes they put up. from a developer's standpoint i can understand how frustrating it would be to have "your route" removed due to something outside of your control - and from your standpoint i can understand how frustrating it would be to ask whoever you asked to remove draws and not have them do that.
i'd like to believe that there's a solution that will meet everyone's needs.
perhaps banning fixed draws.
or maybe removing all fixed draws every jan 1.
or maybe collecting $ to replace the ones that really REALLY need them.
or maybe registering fixed draws (as in logging "Josephine's draws are on Prometheus Unbound 5/1/2025" and if the draws are still up in 1 year then they get taken down)
i don't really know the best solution cuz i don't yet climb on any routes that require fixed draws. and i honestly probably couldn't tell if they were bad unless they were REALLY bad.
i'm sorry that you're angry, Rick. hopefully this will work itself out soon.
"Unthinkably good things can happen, even late in the game." ~ Under the Tuscan Sun
<b>It's Rick's Land.</b>
It doesn't matter what he's asking for--whether it seems unreasonable to you, or not. Whether it's in keeping with Red River Gorge "standard" practices, or not.
Time for a little history lesson: Torrent, Pocket Wall, Hominy Hole...feel free to add your own favorites to that list. Most people here never even saw Hominy before it closed. I <i>loved</i> those places! We could've lost Roadside had someone and his friends not bought it.
Part of what's happening here is a collision between two philosophies:
Rick operates from a base that emphasises safety.
Lots of us who have climbed here for a while, have cut our teeth on long runouts, angle-iron hangers, and other fun things that seem to characterize the best of southern rock climbing. I guess all of us who've climbed here for a few years have a little "outlaw" in us. I climbed illegally at Hominy and Pocket. Lots. I'm not proud, but it was great climbing...A week ago I worked on <i>Super Best Friends</i> and clipped some of those "risky" draws...you know, the ones that are faded, and a little stiff. I've climbed on worse...lots worse.
Anyone who equips a route on any land--private, or not--should remember our history: You can lose it all. Overnight.
So, I'll say it again:
<b>It's Rick's Land.</b>
Rick and Liz are very nice people. Heck, I've even seen Liz ferry climbers back to their cars to pick up forgotten gear. Or let really tired folks use the "forbidden" stairs.
Keep arguing, and we could drive down to Muir Valley tomorrow, see the gate up, and this sign:
<b>"Muir Valley Closed To Climbing Until Further Notice"</b>
It doesn't matter what he's asking for--whether it seems unreasonable to you, or not. Whether it's in keeping with Red River Gorge "standard" practices, or not.
Time for a little history lesson: Torrent, Pocket Wall, Hominy Hole...feel free to add your own favorites to that list. Most people here never even saw Hominy before it closed. I <i>loved</i> those places! We could've lost Roadside had someone and his friends not bought it.
Part of what's happening here is a collision between two philosophies:
Rick operates from a base that emphasises safety.
Lots of us who have climbed here for a while, have cut our teeth on long runouts, angle-iron hangers, and other fun things that seem to characterize the best of southern rock climbing. I guess all of us who've climbed here for a few years have a little "outlaw" in us. I climbed illegally at Hominy and Pocket. Lots. I'm not proud, but it was great climbing...A week ago I worked on <i>Super Best Friends</i> and clipped some of those "risky" draws...you know, the ones that are faded, and a little stiff. I've climbed on worse...lots worse.
Anyone who equips a route on any land--private, or not--should remember our history: You can lose it all. Overnight.
So, I'll say it again:
<b>It's Rick's Land.</b>
Rick and Liz are very nice people. Heck, I've even seen Liz ferry climbers back to their cars to pick up forgotten gear. Or let really tired folks use the "forbidden" stairs.
Keep arguing, and we could drive down to Muir Valley tomorrow, see the gate up, and this sign:
<b>"Muir Valley Closed To Climbing Until Further Notice"</b>
Last edited by poser on Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
May your dreams defy gravity....
SCIN wrote:http://www.allah.org/allah wrote:Chain Draws on long steep routes creates a lot more rope drag than just a regular draw. I would say leave things like they are and if you run into a route that needs a new biner or draw or chain or bolt or hell even a nice deep 2 finger pocket just let me know i have all that to give, I just vote no agianst the chain idea.
I can't ignore this guy's advice. So any idea what we can do with 21 steel biners? I think they were expensive. I could make a big G-Unit homey flava flave necklace for nights out on the town in Lexington I guess.
The steel biners on the end of a draw would be great and for anchors, its mainly the chain
I climb at Muir. I love the place. I have a stake in this issue.
Lander is one of the nicest guys I know, period. He and Rick would be great friends outside the minimalist communication of plain text. I know and trust them both implicitly. Seeing them at each other's throats is like watching two Ewoks fighting.
http://usuarios.lycos.es/BoigCinema/Stars/ewoks.JPG
People are indicating that Rick wanted routes permanently equipped. Where the hell did that come from? He wanted the draws on a few routes to be checked and maintained or removed. It looks like that is going to happen and was happening very soon after the request was made.
Rick asked Kipp if we would coordinate efforts to do this. Kipp agreed to do that, but does not want to be sheriff. Rick never asked for a sheriff.
Let's talk about draws on routes at Muir and come to some consensus.
Rick the number of people that show for trail day is just going to keep increasing. We could get a hell of a lot of maintenance done during that time. Muir is a Jewel and we are all into helping you and Liz manage the place. I hope Muir is bringing joy to people long after I am gone. When all is said and done, we are all just passing through.
Lander is one of the nicest guys I know, period. He and Rick would be great friends outside the minimalist communication of plain text. I know and trust them both implicitly. Seeing them at each other's throats is like watching two Ewoks fighting.
http://usuarios.lycos.es/BoigCinema/Stars/ewoks.JPG
People are indicating that Rick wanted routes permanently equipped. Where the hell did that come from? He wanted the draws on a few routes to be checked and maintained or removed. It looks like that is going to happen and was happening very soon after the request was made.
Rick asked Kipp if we would coordinate efforts to do this. Kipp agreed to do that, but does not want to be sheriff. Rick never asked for a sheriff.
Let's talk about draws on routes at Muir and come to some consensus.
Rick the number of people that show for trail day is just going to keep increasing. We could get a hell of a lot of maintenance done during that time. Muir is a Jewel and we are all into helping you and Liz manage the place. I hope Muir is bringing joy to people long after I am gone. When all is said and done, we are all just passing through.