Replacing draws at Sanctuary and Solarium

[512OW]

Kris says he looked at/fixed up Jesus Wept and Peace Frog and had some some beaner switching on Prometheus. I will take some beaners and draws and take a second look at Prometheus (sorry if I am miss-spelling it- and I don't mean to double up work efforts but at at least this way I am contributing) and make sure it's good to go. That's three done.

What else? What about Solarium?

Thanks Noell. I did Peace Frog, and I gave biners and draws to people on Jesus Wept and Prometheus. Jesus Wept does need a new anchor draw, which I'll be happy to replace in the next couple of weekends. Also, on Prometheus, one of the upper draws was getting sawed during lower off from the anchors. I was gonna leave one, but somebody (I think it was your man, Noell) said he had one he'd leave. Did that happen?? If not, I'll bring one down when I come...

[caribe]

Lurk: I donated draws to Hippocrit. They disappeared within a few months. The bottom line is people take shite and think they are one up. A lot of people replace biners. I am not sanguine about equipping lines with perma stuff; it could just amount to casting pearls (or at least semiprecious metals) before swine.

Solarium and Sanctuary should not be sites in need of policing. Those routes are not plain vanilla easy peasy. The vigorous routes get self-policed. The less vigorous more weathered routes don't get perma draws.

Rick's attention to detail got the conversation rolling. We will deal with problems at the Solarium. We will deal with this issue again 8 months from now if we are lucky. Sketchy gear is something we are always talking about.

[pigsteak]

POWER......actually, Rick, I'll start that ball rolling then. I say stay 100% hands off and leave the climbers to their own demise. We'll fix it when it gets fixed.

I am with Hugh....the most scared climber usually replaces it. or those who appreciate your level of care.

[pigsteak]

Those routes are not plain vanilla easy peasy. The vigorous routes get self-policed.

racist. you been hanging out with Shamis?

[Artsay]

I know Ray and Michelle have graciously (and quietly) bought chain, quicklinks and steel biners to equip two lines at the Surf. Any one else want to step up and donate the cash to permanently equip a steep line at Muir?

Only with the help of our friends (Josh Thurston....another silent selfless giver/worker/supporter/motivator/best of the best of good guys). Just equipping two routes gave me a HUGE appreciation for the cost (let alone the work!) involved with route development.

Donation is the way to go. As climbing becomes more and more popular, wear and tear is becoming a big deal. Kipp - maybe I can help you set up a donation link?

[caribe]

POWER......

Those routes are not plain vanilla easy peasy. The vigorous routes get self-policed.

racist. you been hanging out with Shamis?

Abuse of power! This is what happens every time anyone gives someone a badge.

[tomdarch]

I've no real idea on how much the steel chain component of the cost per bolt is, but if chain is the "clunky crap" JR is talking about then how about Frost Power Draws? maybe they'd be willing to do a bulk discount.

http://frostworksclimbing.com/powerdraws.html

Nevermind. I just noticed that they're rated to 10kN

isn't most gear we rely upon in a whipper rated to ~20kN these days?

I think that Rick has some data on what kinds of forces are generated in worst-case whippers. I'd be surprised if they were greater than 10kN (2,200 lbs), particularly on overhanging routes, where the fall tends to have a lot of swing in it.

I don't know about the price difference, but chain tends to be bulky and nasty looking as a fixed-draw material. (plus, I've been so pumped that I've had trouble holding/clipping off of stainless chain. ) The Frost power draws look like a quality solution.

[allah]

Chain Draws on long steep routes creates a lot more rope drag than just a regular draw. I would say leave things like they are and if you run into a route that needs a new biner or draw or chain or bolt or hell even a nice deep 2 finger pocket just let me know i have all that to give, I just vote no agianst the chain idea.

[redpointron]

Many of you have offered good suggestions for hardware and gear on steep walls. Odd as it might sound, this control freak is going to turn the decision as to what solution is best over to YOU -- those who chose to develop and climb this heinous overhanging stuff. And, as always, we'll contribute toward its implementation.

Because of his respected reputation as a developer, especially of steep walls such as Midnight Surf, and his experience in MV, we would ask Kipp Trummel to be moderator of your "group." We hope he will receive input from respected developers and climbers, such as Kris Hampton, Mark Ryan, Jeff Colombo, Josh Thurston, Ron Bateman, Kenny Barker, Ray and Michelle, Dr. Kripal, Shannon, and far more others than could be conveniently listed here. Hash out your ideas and come up with a plan. Unless it is completely flakey or grossly unsafe, Liz and I will approve it.

Rick

sorry, rick, but i think that anything that kipp is in charge of is ultimately going to be flakely...unless, of course, it's breakfast at mcdonalds...

by the way, i do like those things that neuroshock dug up. ever since christian griffith was climbing in that thong, i have been dying to join his cult... 8)

[Noell]

Kris says he looked at/fixed up Jesus Wept and Peace Frog and had some some beaner switching on Prometheus. I will take some beaners and draws and take a second look at Prometheus (sorry if I am miss-spelling it- and I don't mean to double up work efforts but at at least this way I am contributing) and make sure it's good to go. That's three done.

What else? What about Solarium?

Thanks Noell. I did Peace Frog, and I gave biners and draws to people on Jesus Wept and Prometheus. Jesus Wept does need a new anchor draw, which I'll be happy to replace in the next couple of weekends. Also, on Prometheus, one of the upper draws was getting sawed during lower off from the anchors. I was gonna leave one, but somebody (I think it was your man, Noell) said he had one he'd leave. Did that happen?? If not, I'll bring one down when I come...

I moved the draw on the anchor so that the last draw/rope didn't get rubbed as people were lowering. This coming weekend I will make sure to take some biners and stuff w/us so that I can replace whats needed.

Thanks for the heads up.