Replacing draws at Sanctuary and Solarium

Post by **Andrew** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:48 pm

I don't want to clip ovals. I would rather hang my own than clip ovals.

Thanks:
Rick and Liz
Ray and Michelle
Kris "Odub I am sponsored" Hampton

for the work, and climbing.

Post by **bcombs** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:53 pm

ahab wrote:has climbing in the red just turned a deeper shade of lame??

Cmon, give me a break.

Some of us (myself included) will likely never be strong enough to climb the routes in question at Muir, but we should feel a duty to help out the land owner to make the place as safe as possible. We would be foolish to think that Muir couldn't go away as quickly as it has come.

SCIN, what was the cost for the bent gates? I found some Kong bent gates for $5.95 each. So if the objection is just to Ovals then the cost increase isn't much.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:03 pm

ray, they are bent gate....

jr, what is your beef if the lines have bent gate clippers? surely you jest about the asthetics...(considering the volumes of chalk we deposit, the trails we build, the erosion we cause, etc)

I am also open to suggestions to fix this problem more permanently.

Pehaps this becomes an annual event. Every Jan. 1st, the steep routes are closed until the crappy webbing and biners are changed. Ideas?

Post by **Josephine** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:13 pm

pigsteak wrote: Rick would never pull bolts. I agree that would be punishing to developer, and development would go to zilch on anything remotely steep.

i'm confused cuz i know nothing about bolting - but if you take the hanger off doesn't that have the same effect as pulling/chopping a bolt? either way you can't climb the route anymore. right?

i'm sure you know rick way better than i do - but he always seemed to be the kind of guy that, when he said he was going to do something, he would do it. so i'm not sure why you say he wouldn't pull bolts/remove hangers after he said he would. maybe i'm missing something.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:13 pm

bcombs...the only thing lame is the climbers who always take and never give. climbing isn't free, to anyone. ask the landowners. ask the RRGCC board and volunteers. ask the equippers. ask those who clean up your beer bottles and trash at miguel's.

sometimes I think climbers are some of the coolest, generous people, and then sometimes I think we are the biggest bunch of selfish, entitled, cry babies who get our panties in a wad when the "rules" of conduct change. suck up, put some hard cash to work, and then start your bitching.

go climb trad with no permanent anchors if you don't want to make the Red a better place.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:19 pm

Josephine wrote:
pigsteak wrote: Rick would never pull bolts. I agree that would be punishing to developer, and development would go to zilch on anything remotely steep.
i'm confused cuz i know nothing about bolting - but if you take the hanger off doesn't that have the same effect as pulling/chopping a bolt? either way you can't climb the route anymore. right?

i'm sure you know rick way better than i do - but he always seemed to be the kind of guy that, when he said he was going to do something, he would do it. so i'm not sure why you say he wouldn't pull bolts/remove hangers after he said he would. maybe i'm missing something.

josi, I know Rick appreciates the development work that bolters do. He is just trying to get our attention, and get help with a minor request.

Let's see...Rick did this:

Bought 400 acres of killer cliff with his money
Built treated lumber bridges and stair cases everywhere.
gravelled a parking lot
gravelled the access road
gravelled the road leading to the parking
built retaining walls at the gumby areas
allowed dogs until we didn't seem able of keeping them on leash
allowed 24/7 unfettered access

And then Rick asked for this:

Torque specs on bolted lines
No crappy perma draws
No fires
No dogs
No victory whippers

Dang, seems to me the trade off is still in our favor.

Are climbers really so self absorbed that they can't understand the rules/requests on PRIVATE property? If you have problems with it, then don't climb there. And don't bitch..just climb on all those "free" cliffs.

Post by **bcombs** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:20 pm

pigsteak wrote:bcombs...the only thing lame is the climbers who always take and never give. climbing isn't free, to anyone. ask the landowners. ask the RRGCC board and volunteers. ask the equippers. ask those who clean up your beer bottles and trash at miguel's...

Agreed. Another thing I'll add to that is that there are many climbers who can give time and many who can give money but not always both (those with money have jobs

). So, if you have money to give make sure to support the RRGCC and FOMV and www.teamsuckclimbing.com. Especially those that frequent / only go to MV. If there is money in the kitty then those with only time to donate will have the funds to make their donations worthwhile.

Edited to add www.teamsuckclimbing.com to the list of people that need your donations.

Post by **ahab** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:25 pm

pigsteak wrote:bcombs...the only thing lame is the climbers who always take and never give.

after last weekend, i will no longer be taking. i got shut down on a 10b, so right then & there i decided that climbing was no longer worth the effort, that it didn't make me look cool enough and that i will never be a "real" climber and climb 12s, so i quit climbing. climbing is too hard, and now too expensive as well.

seriously, i'll do what i can, time and/or money wise.

Post by **Josephine** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:30 pm

pigsteak, thanks for explaining. i'm a literal person so i took him literally.

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:30 pm

ahab wrote:
pigsteak wrote:bcombs...the only thing lame is the climbers who always take and never give.
after last weekend, i will no longer be taking. i got shut down on a 10b, so right then & there i decided that climbing was no longer worth the effort, that it didn't make me look cool enough and that i will never be a "real" climber and climb 12s, so i quit climbing. climbing is too hard, and now too expensive as well.

seriously, i'll do what i can, time and/or money wise.

a big gripe with me is all the dirt bag climbers who say they have no money. if you have money for gas at these prices, then you have money. otherwise, you wouldn't be coming down. my suggestion would be to climb one day and volunteer sweat equity the second day. I know it sucks to drive 4 hours to work when all you want to do is climb. but I am warning folks.....keep taking without REAL giving...and it is all limited.

o yeah..I forgot to add Team Suck re-bolting to the list of crazy committed folks who give way more than they take....every stinking person should donate at least $10 a year to this cause.