Trusting Pre-placed Draws

Post by **dbrayack** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:25 pm

Corporate Whore wrote:
dbrayack wrote:It just drives me crazy that people are so adament about it -
heh.. fancy that..

dbrayack wrote:There's no way the Rapelling from anchors is a good idea - its not only more dangerous, but its impossible to clean....besides, rings are SUPER cheap....
i always knew i could do the impossible - i clean while rapping every weekend.

cheap.. like time is cheap? if it was a matter of simple money, it wouldn't be a huge problem. but do you have a drill? how many people do? and even then, are you going to take a weekend to replace stuff if you're driving five hours each way? probably not. and team suck has been pretty damn busy any more. has anyone really stepped up in their place to do the replacements like they've done in the past?

this was one of the more selfish posts i've seen in a while. maybe i need to read more threads, though..

here's a thought, maybe a crazy one but i think i'll throw it out there to see if it flies.. rapping is best when it's slab to slightly overhanging. lowering is best for overhung routes. if you struggle that much with rapping, you probably shouldn't be climbing.. at least not near me.

before you act, think. simple as that.

I figured I'd argue adamently for the other side just to get some good information...and I concur about the slab - if its slabby, then fine...

I guess I am a bit frustrated because I watched a newer climber cleaning anchors - it took them about 15 minutes, they pulled up a whole load of slack - only to drop it before feeding it through the other end...and then they had a lot of trouble cleaning the draws because they only had one hand (I had them on fireman's, but they still wouldn't let go...)

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:26 pm

yo...yo...check this out...

there was a whitey named paul...
he clanked and he clinged up da wall...
odub raps...paul's rhymin' is crap
but piggie and paul are....o snap....

anyone want to buy it?

Post by **dbrayack** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:27 pm

[quote="Corporate Whore]cheap.. like time is cheap? if it was a matter of simple money, it wouldn't be a huge problem. but do you have a drill? how many people do? and even then, are you going to take a weekend to replace stuff if you're driving five hours each way? probably not. and team suck has been pretty damn busy any more. has anyone really stepped up in their place to do the replacements like they've done in the past?

[/quote]

Replacing a ring doesn't required drilling, just unscrew quick link - replace ring, rescrew quick link...

I like the anchors at the red to be honest - most of the time, there's just a sacrificial biner that everyone clips - I've replaced a few of these with my personal old biners...seems to work quite well.

Post by **maybabe82** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:29 pm

Intense Paul.

Post by **maybabe82** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:34 pm

dan - I believe I might know this climber you speak of - any chance this experience of yours was at the gallery? hmm...

Post by **dbrayack** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:37 pm

haha - busted - yah, and based on the pole going on the other thread - I think I may stand correct as far as my argument that lowering is better....

Post by **maybabe82** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:41 pm

i feel the love.

Post by **dbrayack** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:42 pm

I think the reason I'm sounding the horn is that a friend of mine's good friend almost died or got hurt really really bad this weekend - from what I gather, they said "off belay" and the belayer took them off - and then they went to lower and fell the whole way - When I heard it - I instantly thought of this really nice girl who I climbed with and who rapelled off anchors seemingly (it seemed it was new to her).....I would rather lower someone so I'm also in control of their descent....

Make sense?

And I hope my "someone will replace them" comment didn't come off wrong - As an organization at the New, we replace anchors all the time....and when I move to the Red, I'm hoping to be proactive in the process. as in "someone" can hopefully be me...

Post by **Paul3eb** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:46 pm

maybabe82 wrote:Intense Paul.

yeah, maybe.. sorry.

dbrayack wrote:Replacing a ring doesn't required drilling, just unscrew quick link - replace ring, rescrew quick link...

ok, different things then, rings vs. links. and links aren't all that cheap.

regardless.. it sounds like your issue isn't with rapping/lowering at all but with gumbies. no matter what they do, they'll be sketchy.. that's life.

anyway, i just don't understand why people can't put themselves out just a little, just the smallest inconvienence, to help someone else or a community out, even if that help is relatively small. that's what i just can't comprehend..

Post by **maybabe82** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:04 pm

Holla for the gumbies. I would like a clear definition of one, though. I guess they are new and inexperienced? But just because they are inexperienced, doesn't mean they do not have the skill or knowledge how to do something, like rapping and cleaning for example. Maybe, just maybe they are working towards a comfort level.

Just maybe.

Also about the rapping thing - to a certain extent, safety can be argued for being lowered or rapping, but at least in Muir - everyone that can should rap. Rick, the owner, strongly prefers it and since we are freely climbing his property, we should respect his request, if possible. Anywhere else in the red, I think it is up to the climber.

Just my two cents.

Oh, Dan, I cleaned three routes this past weekend and can say with confidence, I am good to go. No more "15" minute cleans - more like 3 or 4 minutes. I was definately freaking out learning how to do it a couple weeks ago. Removing a rope completely from my harness when that very thing was what kept me alive the last couple years of climbing was more than scary.