You're right the Murray Property is more important right now, it still sucks that we might lose Roadside...I would take Roadside over Bob Marley any day.
We can also expect that the southern region will get more crowded without Roadside, give the amount of moderates that are being bolted in the southern region. People come in LARGE groups to climb on Kampsite and c sharp b flat and that won't be an option anymore...
Signage inquiry
I love it...we are worried about the history of Roadside as it pertains to climbers....
what about those who were there before us? That sort of argument works right into the hands of those who want to close other crags becasue of the "history" of Native Americans....
Climbing is not some god given right on public lands..we have created this "sport", just like others created their hobbies of hiking, bird watching, bungie jumping, sky diving, etc...whatever we lose, we'll adapt....we always have as a civilization
BTW, if Roadside is bought by non climbers, and they want to pull the bolts, more power to them. As private landowners, they have that right. It is the same right that allows my friend to buy his crag in Arkansas (where the previous owner was non climber friendly), and to now bolt like mad, cut away trees, and make new paths..In less than 18 months he has bolted over 60 lines, and established another 25 trad lines...
Now if the prior owner were to get all "teary eyed" about the history he had there, would we care enough to defer to his prior wishes? I didn't think so....
Don't read this wrong...I want access to all crags, but we seem to possess this "I want more" mentality...as a group, climbers have bought into the same expansion mentality that sent Native Americans to the reservations....how about we go back 15 years, and be satisfied with only the crags that we had open then at the Red?
The Red has waaaaaay more routes today than it did 15 years ago...and fear mongering is a bad tactic to build a coalition around.
what about those who were there before us? That sort of argument works right into the hands of those who want to close other crags becasue of the "history" of Native Americans....
Climbing is not some god given right on public lands..we have created this "sport", just like others created their hobbies of hiking, bird watching, bungie jumping, sky diving, etc...whatever we lose, we'll adapt....we always have as a civilization
BTW, if Roadside is bought by non climbers, and they want to pull the bolts, more power to them. As private landowners, they have that right. It is the same right that allows my friend to buy his crag in Arkansas (where the previous owner was non climber friendly), and to now bolt like mad, cut away trees, and make new paths..In less than 18 months he has bolted over 60 lines, and established another 25 trad lines...
Now if the prior owner were to get all "teary eyed" about the history he had there, would we care enough to defer to his prior wishes? I didn't think so....
Don't read this wrong...I want access to all crags, but we seem to possess this "I want more" mentality...as a group, climbers have bought into the same expansion mentality that sent Native Americans to the reservations....how about we go back 15 years, and be satisfied with only the crags that we had open then at the Red?
The Red has waaaaaay more routes today than it did 15 years ago...and fear mongering is a bad tactic to build a coalition around.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
Of course we are all worried about the history of Roadside as it pertains to climbers. It's not an area known for fishing, hiking, rappelling, etc.
Hell, I wish I had the money to buy it! I'd take all the bolts out of the walls and set up Naked Bambi Hunts.
Hell, I wish I had the money to buy it! I'd take all the bolts out of the walls and set up Naked Bambi Hunts.
Does he have a strange bear claw like appendage protruding from his neck? He kep petting it.
Pigsteak, the RRGCC tactic is not fear based, it is reality based. We as a "community" need to take ownership of our sport as well as our actions. The RRGCC can run auctions, hold events to no avail, it's up to the "community" to take action and want to do something about it.
Just genuinely disengenuous.
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More real info needs to be made available concerning the Roadside sale rumor if it is not just a rumor. One part of the rumor as I have heard it is that the State Park wants to buy. That doesn't seem to make sense though. I would not be concerned about a Roadside closure due to it's history, nor to lost send opportunities for myself (I avoid the place due to its popularity), I have serious concerns though on the impact the closure of Roadside would have on other crags. Where would the throngs that frequent Roadside go as an alternative. Would more people then show up then at Military, Left Flank, Phantasia or would they be at Torrent or in the Big Sinking? Wherever they go it could cause problems and even more closures. A kind of domino effect. Scary.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
Hmmmm...naked bambi hunts....now that's a thought...
Just trying to stir up the conversation here...how would my earlier propostion sit with everyone...how about if we could get a document signed that allows us complete access to ALL of the crags we currently climb at, IF we agreee to NOT develop anymore crags lying out there? Would developers (and those of us who love to climb their new creations) agree to no new bolting to protect current resources?
I get the feeling we want it both ways..expansion of our wants/needs as it pertains to new areas, yet no expansion of the wants/needs of current landowners (as they view climbing).....hmmmm, no wonder I hate liberals and conservatives...
Just trying to stir up the conversation here...how would my earlier propostion sit with everyone...how about if we could get a document signed that allows us complete access to ALL of the crags we currently climb at, IF we agreee to NOT develop anymore crags lying out there? Would developers (and those of us who love to climb their new creations) agree to no new bolting to protect current resources?
I get the feeling we want it both ways..expansion of our wants/needs as it pertains to new areas, yet no expansion of the wants/needs of current landowners (as they view climbing).....hmmmm, no wonder I hate liberals and conservatives...
Last edited by pigsteak on Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.