When Have You Oficcially Redpointed a Route

[JR]

Fact is, it isn't really a route unless there is a jug to clip from. Everybody knows that no ending jug = incomplete route.
Jug, topout, or it ain't a route.

I agree but it is still a route just not one of a high quality.

Take Chainsaw. You make that hairbrained clip(or clips for you 7 wierdos that insist on clipping two) at the end. I personally think the route is crap based solely on the decision to put the anchor in La La Land.

[Andrew]

I have no problem clipping the anchors on Chainsaw. Maybe if your arms didn't resemble a T-rex, you wouldn't have problems.

[512OW]

If you want all your hard climbs finishing in a jug, stay indoors and get your points You can put what ever you want at the top...there will be many routes outdoors you will be missing...

You don't get points for indoors. In fact, there is no climbing indoors, only training.

Those routes that end on random holds in the middle of the wall should topout or continue to a better spot... Putting the anchors in the middle of a bunch of bad holds, when it could continue or stop below at a more sensible spot, is no different than stopping at the last bolt, before the crux, and saying you "sent" a 12c instead of the complete 13a.

Seems as silly as gym climbing to me.

I agree with JR. Call it a route. Just not a good one.

[tutugirl]

I was totatlly being sarcastic about the points indoors...but I am so glad that you are thinking about all the beautiful lines you are going to bolt at the Red since you seem to be the expert bolter.

[512OW]

Haha. So I guess your ideas make YOU the expert bolter? Doubtful.

See, you're getting your wires crossed. I'm not a bolter at all. I'm a climber. I enjoy routes... even way chossier than you would ever touch... of all kinds. Sport, trad, and bouldering.

The fact is, for me to call a route good... or classic... or ANYTHING more than training, it needs to fit certain criteria. One of those is that it doesn't leave you hangin at the end. Stopping in the middle of nowhere leaves me feeling empty, like something was missing.

Then again, I'm not satisfied with just numbers. If I were, I would share your ideas.

[tutugirl]

First of all, I don't think we know each other "that way" to know what I would ever touch or not touch... secondly on my spray list you can see how important the numbers truly are for me...which mean none at all since I don't ever keep tabs or logs on any of the thousands of climbs that I have done. I do the climb and I enjoy it, I don't complain about the last jug or lack of one...

[Andrew]

girl fight

[512OW]

Cmon now, lets be real here. I've heard you tell 2 dozen people how many 13's you sent back in the day (6?), and where you placed in big comps. Obviously the numbers matter to you. Your lack of a spray list could very well mean the opposite of what you imply. Maybe you're afraid to see how far down the points list you'd be after all those years at the Red...

Now that there's a way to quantify it, none of the old "big dogs" want to be quantified....

[tutugirl]

Wow, you sure know so much about me for only saying hi (at most) at RQ and not even been there on days I climb...I did not know I meant so much to you.

[512OW]

I'm not there to chat and spew beta. I'm there to train.

Its a cool trick how I say Hi even though I'm not there on the days when you climb, huh?

What means something to me is the integrity of rockclimbing, and because of the arbitrary nature of bolting sport climbs, I feel the equipper should shoulder the responsibility of bolting an actual "line", complete with a natural stopping point. If that stopping point doesn't exist, and the "line" fades into nothing, then move on and bolt something else.

The exception to that rule would be at crags like much of the Lode. There, the "lines" could crisscross each other all day long, because some of those walls are filled with holds. Those are training crags, and hold very few real "lines".

What bugs me is the idea that numbers don't matter to people. Of course they do. Too many people pull that "I climb only for the enjoyment" bullshit...