How many more people do we have to kill to avoid feeling humiliated? We should feel humiliated (or at least some humility for our actions) and hopefully the next president will sincerely apologize to the world. If anything destroys our country it will be policies like those we've seen in the last 8 years.L K Day wrote:a desire to see the U.S. humiliated or destroyed at worst.
Angelina Jolie on Iraq
Are you asking me to document the current administration efforts to link 911 to Iraq? I just want to understand you fully Neal before I proceed.
Lander wrote:It's a little off topic but I can't let this one go by. This is something that I've heard people on the left say many times and nobody ever challenges them on it. I was paying attention in the time leading up to the war, and since then, and I never heard anybody from the administration say anything like that. Can you provide us with a quote backing up your assertion? If so, I'll concede the point.caribe wrote: They also lied to us about Iraq's involvement in 911.
http://www.thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=320
audio
Act One. Truth, Damn Truth and Statistics.
Two years ago (2004, stats compiled from facts previous to 2004), a John Hopkins University study published in The Lancet estimated the number of civilian casualties in Iraq. It came up with a number — 100,000 dead — that was higher than any other estimate at the time and was mostly ignored. Producer Alex Blumberg tells the remarkable story of what it took to find that number, why we should find it credible and why almost no one believed it. (36 minutes).
Will this really change your mind about what is going on?
Is there a way to change your mind about what is going on?
audio
Act One. Truth, Damn Truth and Statistics.
Two years ago (2004, stats compiled from facts previous to 2004), a John Hopkins University study published in The Lancet estimated the number of civilian casualties in Iraq. It came up with a number — 100,000 dead — that was higher than any other estimate at the time and was mostly ignored. Producer Alex Blumberg tells the remarkable story of what it took to find that number, why we should find it credible and why almost no one believed it. (36 minutes).
Will this really change your mind about what is going on?
Is there a way to change your mind about what is going on?
Right, a quote about what? Are you asking me find a quote that shows that the administration blamed 911 on Iraq? Before I dig I want to know what you are looking for. I need to evaporate for a few hours but I will be back. While I am gone, perhaps some other libby can provide the documentation that I think Lander wants to see. It is extensive.Lander wrote:I'm asking for an actual quote, friend.
Yea, it's quite simple. You said that the administration lied to us about Iraqs involvement in 911. I'm asking what did they say that would lead one to conclude that Iraq was behind it? You must have heard Bush, Cheney, or somebody else say that. I know leading up to the war they talked about Iraq, Sadam, terrorism, 911, etc, often in the same discussion. I suppose it could be argued that served to confuse the public about the issue. But I never heard any of them directly link Iraq to 911. If they did, there ought to be a quote out there. Extensive documentation isn't needed. Just a simple quote. If they never said it then you can't say they lied about Iraq being behind it.caribe wrote:Right, a quote about what? Are you asking me find a quote that shows that the administration blamed 911 on Iraq? Before I dig I want to know what you are looking for. I need to evaporate for a few hours but I will be back. While I am gone, perhaps some other libby can provide the documentation that I think Lander wants to see. It is extensive.Lander wrote:I'm asking for an actual quote, friend.
"Doin' right aint got no end." - CRLT
They were very careful not to say it directly but they were continually implying it. This is more deceptive because it shows they knew the truth but were intentionally trying to deceive the American public. But who cares what they said, the problem is that all this death, destruction, deception, waste of money and resources, and international credibility damage is all because we are trying to get a political, economic and military foothold in the middle east. It's horribly selfish and immoral.
Oh, and you may think it's horribly selfish and immoral for us to depose murderous tyrants, try to keep the Iranian regime from developing atomic weapons, defeat Al Qaeda wherever they may be (include Somalia for instance) and to try to prevent the destruction of Israel. But, as of the last presidential election, most Americans still supported our "selfish" defense of the western world. We'll see if the majority still feels that way come November, won't we.
Last edited by L Day on Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.