McCain
The only reason Carter had a poor Presidency is because he was faced with a Republican Congress that refused to cooperate on any level and a CIA run by a Bush that deliberately sabotaged his attempt to rescue the Iranian hostages.
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[size=75]You are as bad as Alan, and even he hits the mark sometimes. -charlie
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
yawn....nice try alan. funny how how that works isn't it...give credit to the democratic president and blame the republican congress..my, who would have thought.....lmao
hey, mr astute observer....what ya got to say for the liberal NY Times blatantly lying about teh McCain affair? Let me hear ya spin this one, cause I know ya got it in you. Lanny Davis (HUGE lib) is backing McCain.....god, you democrats are so f***ing pathetic in how low you will stoop to win the vote. talk about trying to rig an election .....
i expect the other puppet mouth of the democratic party, tomdarch, to give us an essay on how technically in the post cold war irrigation of a sunni concentration camp, mccain was found to be pocketing bribes, thereby technically increasing his liklihood of being caught with his drawers down like your hero slick willy....time to spin boys..time to spin.. a real honest american would actualy admit the liberal press stepped Waaaaay over the line this time, and ask for the editors resignation. but I wouldn't expect it from you lemmings. keep drinking the kool aid ladies.
hey, mr astute observer....what ya got to say for the liberal NY Times blatantly lying about teh McCain affair? Let me hear ya spin this one, cause I know ya got it in you. Lanny Davis (HUGE lib) is backing McCain.....god, you democrats are so f***ing pathetic in how low you will stoop to win the vote. talk about trying to rig an election .....
i expect the other puppet mouth of the democratic party, tomdarch, to give us an essay on how technically in the post cold war irrigation of a sunni concentration camp, mccain was found to be pocketing bribes, thereby technically increasing his liklihood of being caught with his drawers down like your hero slick willy....time to spin boys..time to spin.. a real honest american would actualy admit the liberal press stepped Waaaaay over the line this time, and ask for the editors resignation. but I wouldn't expect it from you lemmings. keep drinking the kool aid ladies.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
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the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm
Why defend McCain? Yes, it sounds like a torpedo job by the NYTs. But he still isn't going to win. Yes, it (the NYT article) smells bad and gives right wingers ammo to further strengthen their doubt in anyone not towing the Republican party line (concentrating wealth with the top .1, trickle down economics, eliminating the middle class, etc...)
But I guess all of you wingers are going to have to satisfy yourselves with at least four years of Rush shit talking the black man in power. That is going to suck for you, huh?
Maybe, instead of what Clinton did, rubbing your noses in it (that you lost to an outsider Democrat that didn't ask by your leave), Obama might really be a coalition builder and try to work with your sorry lot.
But I guess all of you wingers are going to have to satisfy yourselves with at least four years of Rush shit talking the black man in power. That is going to suck for you, huh?
Maybe, instead of what Clinton did, rubbing your noses in it (that you lost to an outsider Democrat that didn't ask by your leave), Obama might really be a coalition builder and try to work with your sorry lot.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
Normie
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the lurkist
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- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm
What is so wrong with a little Socialism, relative to our form of run away no holds bar capitalism.
Now I can understand why billionaires don't want to pay taxes (well, not really, but for the sake of arguement I will empathize). They have been corrupted by their extreme wealth and have lost all perspective on any social responsibility. But everyone else in the Republican party having an aversion to paying for any services that the Federal Government provides, I just don't understand. I mean, we all drive on roads, we all use the utilities, we all rely on police and fire, we all should want an effective form of public education (like my friend, cop, and social scientist Matt Brotherton says, pay for schools now or pay for prisons later- and he is absolutely right).
Yes, I know the Municiple, State, and Federal programs are inefficient and tend to waste money, but the alternative is a society that falls apart. To many people can't "boot strap" themselves, face too many obstacles, etc.
Capitalism that has no rein placed on it takes its natural course- it concentrates wealth and has no conscience for anyone it steps on in the process. Why middle class folks like everyone on here would defend it I just don't get.
Now I can understand why billionaires don't want to pay taxes (well, not really, but for the sake of arguement I will empathize). They have been corrupted by their extreme wealth and have lost all perspective on any social responsibility. But everyone else in the Republican party having an aversion to paying for any services that the Federal Government provides, I just don't understand. I mean, we all drive on roads, we all use the utilities, we all rely on police and fire, we all should want an effective form of public education (like my friend, cop, and social scientist Matt Brotherton says, pay for schools now or pay for prisons later- and he is absolutely right).
Yes, I know the Municiple, State, and Federal programs are inefficient and tend to waste money, but the alternative is a society that falls apart. To many people can't "boot strap" themselves, face too many obstacles, etc.
Capitalism that has no rein placed on it takes its natural course- it concentrates wealth and has no conscience for anyone it steps on in the process. Why middle class folks like everyone on here would defend it I just don't get.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
Normie
because, dear lurk, we have all bought into the dream that anyone can have the american dream with enough fortitude and perseverance. a load of baloney, I agree, but the US has done an admirable job of selling it to us. hence, the current mortgage crisis, the incredible amount of bankruptcy, billions in credit card debt, etc....folks have no idea how to live on what they make, and save for a rainy day. but that is not the fault of any political party. that is a culture problem.
now, I find curious your early statement linking billionaires and the republicans. do you honestly think that more of the ulttra wealthy are republicans than democrats. you'll have to prove that one to me, because I highly doubt it. do you realize that warren buffet, bill gates, and george soros (arguable three of the richest in the US) all want to eliminate the estate tax? Soros is mega wealthy and a lib.
Why the class warfare? Do you realize that Clinton, Obama and Mccain are ALL millionaires? please explain to me how it is ok for a liberal to be a rich and you'll vote for them, but for a conservative to be rich and be evil. you my friend, have bought into the class warfare ideollogy of the liberal elite. you probably think conservatives want to keep the poor homeless, take away your kids free public education, give tax cuts to only the ultra rich, etc....
again, does anyone on here actually understand the tax code? seriously, because if you did, you would never believe that the poor are over taxed. child tax credits, EIC credit, etc....folks, the bottom 25% of the poorest americans pay ZERO in income taxes...ZERO. what part of that is not fair? oh I know, because on top of that, these folks who do not work or work part time also get REFUNDABLE credits. that is, the US gov't gives them free money. they take money from a paying persons pocket and give it to someone who already paid ZERO to start. man, you libs are crazy and insane if you think that system is "fair".
most that is why I am for a consumption tax..you spend it, you pay a sales tax.
Lurk, why defend McCain? because the man is a great American who has served his country honorably, and anyone should be ashamed that this hack job on him got published. Disagree with his politics, but for god's sake, stand up for journalistic integrity. It is like the whole innuendos on Obama's maddrassa link...pathetic smear jobs. All smear jobs should be denounced.
I also, ranted against the witch hunt on Clinton's sex life. Waste of money.
now, I find curious your early statement linking billionaires and the republicans. do you honestly think that more of the ulttra wealthy are republicans than democrats. you'll have to prove that one to me, because I highly doubt it. do you realize that warren buffet, bill gates, and george soros (arguable three of the richest in the US) all want to eliminate the estate tax? Soros is mega wealthy and a lib.
Why the class warfare? Do you realize that Clinton, Obama and Mccain are ALL millionaires? please explain to me how it is ok for a liberal to be a rich and you'll vote for them, but for a conservative to be rich and be evil. you my friend, have bought into the class warfare ideollogy of the liberal elite. you probably think conservatives want to keep the poor homeless, take away your kids free public education, give tax cuts to only the ultra rich, etc....
again, does anyone on here actually understand the tax code? seriously, because if you did, you would never believe that the poor are over taxed. child tax credits, EIC credit, etc....folks, the bottom 25% of the poorest americans pay ZERO in income taxes...ZERO. what part of that is not fair? oh I know, because on top of that, these folks who do not work or work part time also get REFUNDABLE credits. that is, the US gov't gives them free money. they take money from a paying persons pocket and give it to someone who already paid ZERO to start. man, you libs are crazy and insane if you think that system is "fair".
most that is why I am for a consumption tax..you spend it, you pay a sales tax.
Lurk, why defend McCain? because the man is a great American who has served his country honorably, and anyone should be ashamed that this hack job on him got published. Disagree with his politics, but for god's sake, stand up for journalistic integrity. It is like the whole innuendos on Obama's maddrassa link...pathetic smear jobs. All smear jobs should be denounced.
I also, ranted against the witch hunt on Clinton's sex life. Waste of money.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
lurk, the only problem with socialism in the US is that we already have a fair amount of social programs, govt spending AND huge military spending.the lurkist wrote:What is so wrong with a little Socialism, relative to our form of run away no holds bar capitalism.
Now I can understand why billionaires don't want to pay taxes (well, not really, but for the sake of arguement I will empathize). They have been corrupted by their extreme wealth and have lost all perspective on any social responsibility. But everyone else in the Republican party having an aversion to paying for any services that the Federal Government provides, I just don't understand. I mean, we all drive on roads, we all use the utilities, we all rely on police and fire, we all should want an effective form of public education (like my friend, cop, and social scientist Matt Brotherton says, pay for schools now or pay for prisons later- and he is absolutely right).
Yes, I know the Municiple, State, and Federal programs are inefficient and tend to waste money, but the alternative is a society that falls apart. To many people can't "boot strap" themselves, face too many obstacles, etc.
Capitalism that has no rein placed on it takes its natural course- it concentrates wealth and has no conscience for anyone it steps on in the process. Why middle class folks like everyone on here would defend it I just don't get.
The money has to come from somewhere, and more social programs like healthcare will mean even more money needs to be gathered to pay for it.
So we're already operating on a deficit, we already have a huge military that polices the world, and we already have out of control govt spending, so lets not add any more until we actually clean up what we do have.
Also, I think if you look at all the countries that have good national healthcare plans, you'll notice that they tend to have very low military spending. So unless we stop trying to police the world both actively and through threats dependent on our military might, I don't see how we can afford both national healthcare and a huge military.
Also, there are diminishing returns on taxes. Raising them slows the economy slightly. Raising them alot slows it more. And eventually you'll reach a threshold where raising taxes slows the economy enough that you don't actually get any more revenue in for the tax increase because there ended up being less income to tax, even at the higher rate.
So i think we need to find a balance. I think taxes as they are now are reasonable, but spending has not been reasonable. Once the govt shows a little more fiscal responsibility, then perhaps we can talk about national healthcare, or more importantly education reform.
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the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm