Climbers Spray-painting trees at Oil Crack, Arena, etc.

[tomdarch]

uuh - I'm getting mixed signals from my 'sarcasm detector'.

Sure, the RRGCC should 'clean this up' because it sounds schlocky, and it probably didn't function well as directional signage.

On the other hand, it is a confusing area to get around at first. As long as the RRGCC is working to promote the area for the land purchase, some sort of signage would be very helpful to people who are trying to climb in the area for the first time. A few directional signs on posts (or even nailed to trees ) would go a long way towards helping people get around down there. (Also, don't forget that people need help getting out, not just finding the crags).

The less people end up driving around lost on those roads, the less they will damaged. Also, if people can actually find the climbs, it will be more likely that they will appreciate what all is there and will be more likely to cough up the cash that will be required to complete the purchase....

[Saxman]

The spray painted symbols were definitely too big. If they were done without permission, then that is wrong also. However, what about asking for permission to place a few small symbols like we are all used to seeing on the trail? I don't find the occasional small white diamond, turtle, or AT symbol destructive or bothersome. If a lot of new people are having a hard time finding their way, then a few small signs or tree insignias, if given permission to be placed, surely can't injure the environment or the view more than the relics of oil production which litter the entire area and have not been cleaned up.

[Power2U]

Give me a break man! Why don't we put signs at every crag and paint arrows on the roads telling you how to get there. I thought climbers were adventerous types who liked to problem solve and challenge themselves. As if a damn line of bolts is too tricky to follow up the cliff....never mind route finding skills how about crag finding skills. Man you people better never go to Rocky Mountain National Park and try to find an alpine climb....you would never be seen again....no shiny line of bolts and certainly no spray painted signs, or wooden ones for that matter, telling where the climb is located.

Maybe sport climbing and gym climbing have hurt this sport

[Spragwa]

I agree. Also, lest we forget that this is private property, until we purchase it. We don't have permission to paste signs all over.

[Wicked Tribe]

I think people ought to be able to give and follow directions. THerefore, we don't need signs. If you are an observant person there are plenty of natural signs out there to help you find the crags. Paint and/or signs are totally unnecessary, especially when a road goes right up to the base of the freakin' crag!

[rhunt]

Yeah, signs are a tuff thing. We have signs on the national forest land that tells how we are expected to conduct ourselves..ie no fires and such.

I agree that signs would help new people find their way, but it does take away from the adventure. I had to wonder around the southern region many times trying to find the new secret crags!

And Power2U..there is a difference between Eastern Kentucky and Colorado!

But you're right...like they use to say..."Sport Climbing is neither"

[JB]

yup, if you can't follow ray's directions to a crag or find a climb usin' a map, then you don't need to be climbin'.

I admit ray's route descriptions occasionaly are a bit confusing (ex... the first route listed at the arena (Big in Japan) says to walk right from the next climb listed (Stairway to Freebird)), but come on folks... climbing (even cragging) used to be about the adventure... and if finding a crag in the big sinking is a problem for you, then please don't try to find Muscle Beach or Minas Tirith... you won't make it.

[Jeff]

"On the other hand, it is a confusing area to get around at first. As long as the RRGCC is working to promote the area for the land purchase, some sort of signage would be very helpful to people who are trying to climb in the area for the first time. A few directional signs on posts (or even nailed to trees ) would go a long way towards helping people get around down there. (Also, don't forget that people need help getting out, not just finding the crags)."

It is currently private property. What would give the rrgcc or anyone the right to put up signs? And if you need that much help finding your way, maybe you should take up a diferent form of recreation. What ever happened to talking face to face with people and asking them where an area is?

"The less people end up driving around lost on those roads, the less they will damaged."

I doubt that. Those roads have gone down-hill dramaticly in the past year alone. I don't think signs would make any diference. Besides who the hell wants to see signs pointing you where to go out in the woods? That's really freakin' lame.

" Also, if people can actually find the climbs, it will be more likely that they will appreciate what all is there and will be more likely to cough up the cash that will be required to complete the purchase...."

Doubt that too. Those who care enough about the Red, and climbing in general, have probably already made up their minds if they are going to help or not. I would think that signs with names and arrows etc... would turn more people off due to the DisneyLand like atmosphere.

[Jeff]

Besides what we're talking about is big bright red spray paint on very old trees.
Nothing short of vandalism.

[Eric]

what about the signs pointing to Military and Left Flank? These are directed solely to climbers and were put up by the RRGCC. There is a difference between finding a route and finding a wall that is buried in the hollows of the Southern Region where just about every turnoff road looks the same.