My prediction for 2008...

[flip]

I think the real point is that their isn't enough maintenance going on.

Team suck already has a back log of about 20 routes (if the site is up to date) and know people are asking them to rebolt about 17 sport lines and 32 sets of anchors.

Sure we could donate the money but lets get real their just aren't enough people willing to but in the time for maintenance or enough people to teach people how to do it.

[Pru]

i don't see how, if we have a tangible plan in place, the funds to back it, the wonderful people willing to do the dirty work, and are willing to do it in a very short period of time, the FS would say no.

then again - there are unreasonable people in the world.

we may need to offer the FS something in return, and I don't mean assurances that the risk of climber deaths will be reduced. That kind of talk may lead to a cliff closure. I think a full blown trail as well as route effort should be undertaken. If the trail out to FRC doesn't need it, there are plenty on FS land that do. Offer up a gaggle of climbers doing trail work for a weekend in exchange for a 9 day drilling window (2 full weekends plus the week between) and that might just their cooperation. Breaking the rules is not the way to go here. Losing FRC would hurt as much as losing the Arena.

[flip]

Yes 512OW it was Lost in space and I can't believe you would take whips on those bolts at FRC just to move up the points list. You have a kid!

[Pru]

flip you are like a deer caught in the headlights

[flip]

So are all of the people that think funk rock is the only place that needs new bolts.

[512OW]

Flip... I don't fall.

[512OW]

Captain Static rightfully suggested we would need to replace all bolts with stainless steel. My guess is that a stainless bolt and hanger setup is at best around $8 each (if bought in bulk). I'm just guessing on that number.

Roughly 160 bolts at $8 is $1280. The beer and pizza afterward is at least $220.

My guess is that $1500 would probably cover it.

Just a guesstimate.

[captain static]

Just to be clear on a couple of points:
1. There is currently a Forest Service moratorium on any new bolting in Red River Gorge while the LAC Process continues.
2. Replacement or maintenance of existing fixed anchors is fine.
3. Replacement or maintenance of existing fixed anchors in Clifty Wilderness can only be accomplished using "non-mechanized means".

I will go ahead and set up a meeting with the Forest Service to see what it would take to get the special permission to use a power drill in the Wilderness. In the mean time if some or all of the routes at FRC or any where else in the Wilderness are triple jingus then I think the immediate solutions would either be get out there with a hand drill or institute a voluntary route or area closure while the special permission is pursued.

[Spragwa]

Pru: We have done the trail work fairly regularly but Military could use some love again...as always. And FRC could probably use some love too. Who knows?

Jim Holzman is another great guy to approach the Forest Service on our behalf. too has been working on LAC issues with Bill and Shannon and Dwight. Go group go!

As for re-equipping, I offer to go out on any weekend and help in any way that I can. Carrying bolt buckets, keeping areas clear for safety, etc. Heck, I'll even go up and pull the bolts if shown how.

[512OW]

I'll go climb all the routes and hang ropes.