The left freaks out.

[ashtray]

Your right larry, Bush won the war, but more importantly our economy is doing great. Remember money makes the world go around.

finally some words of wisdom from Andrew. I think you are beginning to see the light.


And PRU, quadruple post. Get you facts straight. You guys really might want to get all of your facts straight on these types of posts. I mean I know you liberals are Freedom haters and all but enough is enough.

[Pru]

[gulliver]

The Lancet article is a John's Hopkins survey.

I'm not sold on the study anymore. The 'Main Street Bias' problem deserves a look although it seems to have it's own problems too.

The Iraq Body Count number reflects direct involvement of coalition forces. That subset would have meant nothing to me before a war and means nothing to me now. Several million could be scratched off the human cost of war in WWI, WWII etc. It's a notch on a gunstock.

Statistics can be politicized like anything else. Human Rights Watch estimated Saddam's regime killed 250,000 to 290,000 people over 20 years. That's a horrible number. Until it's politically expedient to inflate it.

[krampus]

In any case, the most exagurated number of civilians that saddam killed over 20 years is a million, the most underestimated white house numbers are right around 100,000. So at best, we have matched 10% of saddams 20 year mass killing spree since the war began.

[Atl]

Good point krampus, my figures were not researched meticulously well, but they seemed a good general set. Even if I am totally incorrect your figures which are way more conservative speak for themselves. In any case for Lkday to announce that we are winning the war is insanely premature even if it was a justified war. As a veteran of the US Army infantry I think that we are the bad guys in this war even according to the programming that my nation instilled in me during my training.

[L K Day]

As a veteran of the US Army infantry I think that we are the bad guys in this war even according to the programming that my nation instilled in me during my training.

"Americans are our protectors and saviors," - Abul Abed, the former Sunni insurgent commander who recently joined with the Americans to rid his Baghdad neighborhood of Al Qaeda forces.

I think Abul knows who the bad guys are, and I'm thankful that Atl no longer serves.

[Andrew]

As a veteran of the US Army infantry I think that we are the bad guys in this war even according to the programming that my nation instilled in me during my training.

"Americans are our protectors and saviors," - Abul Abed, the former Sunni insurgent commander who recently joined with the Americans to rid his Baghdad neighborhood of Al Qaeda forces.

I think Abul knows who the bad guys are, and I'm thankful that Atl no longer serves.

Thats a dick thing to say. I know a bunch of soldiers who served in Iraq that feel the same way.

[L K Day]

So you know a bunch of losers? Sorry, you ought to hang with a better crowd. I also know a number of Iraq veterans, and none of them think we're the bad guys. Get a clue. If you can't figure out that it is the bad guys that chop off heads, use power drills on innocents, blow up police recruits and crowds of people in their mosques and markets, then there's not much I can do to help you understand.

[tomdarch]

"Americans are our protectors and saviors," - Abul Abed, the former Sunni insurgent commander who recently joined with the Americans to rid his Baghdad neighborhood of Al Qaeda forces.

I think Abul knows who the bad guys are, and I'm thankful that Atl no longer serves.

No, Abdul doesn't give a shit about 'good guys' and 'bad guys', he cares about who his current 'friends' or 'enemies' currently are. Who is supplying me with better weapons? Who is letting me kill the civilians I want to?

If in a week or two things change, I doubt it matters much to Abdul?

(Let's also not forget that the "al Qaeda" referred to in the above quote are al Qaeda wannabes (aiQ), not the al Qaeda who organized and executed the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. Totally different people. There is no evidence that wannabe aiQ has any plans to attack any Americans who aren't troops in Iraq.)

[tomdarch]

Get a clue. If you can't figure out that it is the bad guys that chop off heads, use power drills on innocents, blow up police recruits and crowds of people in their mosques and markets, then there's not much I can do to help you understand.

Man, you walked into this one: If you can't figure out that attacking bound prisoners with dogs or sexually humiliating them, bombing houses full of children based on sloppy intel, kidnapping innocent civilians and torturing them, creating secret prisons and getting slimy lawyers to construct weak legal claims that you can ignore the Geneva Conventions, aligning yourself with nasty dictators for convenience, illegally invading countries along with a "coalition of the billing" without the resources to prevent the obvious civil war that will follow, using 'cowboy' mercenaries who shoot up civilians and run away without prosecuting them for their crimes, standing by as a nation ethnically cleanses itself and calling it a victory, and on and on, makes you a bad guy, then there's not much I can do to help you understand.

Or put another way, if you can't figure out that water boarding is torture, and that torturing people makes you a bad guy, then there's not much I can do to help you understand.

Because the Bush administration has approached the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks from a position of fear and weakness, they have put our troops in Iraq in a horrible position. The troops put an enormous amount of trust in the office of the President, and the current President failed them miserably on many counts.