Questions for "old schoolers"

[heidiramma]

no it's "verticly challenged" where's your PC skills?

no no silly, computers have nothing to do with makin fun of little people

their arms can still reach the keys like us normal folk

[ynot]

look again. Farthead. now that we derailed a perfectly good serious thread.

[KD]

no it's "verticly challenged" where's your PC skills?

no no silly, computers have nothing to do with makin fun of little people

their arms can still reach the keys like us normal folk

unless they're using laptops!

[Fartspray]

[ynot]

My work here is done

[dipsi]

Now you can die happy!

But me first....you know, the me in the chalk bag, you climbing Foxfire clean thingy!

[captain static]

How do you feel about have your _route totally re-engineered? IE, jump for joy could be a fun easy _route, if the line and anchors were shifted several feet to the left.
How do you feel about replacing a drilled pin with a _bolt?
How do you feel about adding anchors at the top of the cliff to replace rapping from a tree.
And, for the non-equippering older school people as well, what is your general thoughts on re-equipping a _route?

Real Name -Bill Strachan
Years _Climbing - 35
Approx number of _routes equipped / FA'ed - 8 in RRG, 6 Trad, 2 Sport

Trying to get this thread back on a serious track the DBNF Forest Plan implies that route maintenance is allowed without prior authorization only if such maintenance does not substantially increase the use of of the area. Thus re-engineering that could potentially increase traffic might require Forest Service authorization. Adding anchors to a trad route would constitute "development" according to the Forest Plan and would require prior Forest Service authorization.

[Lateralus]

1 Pat
2 22
3 70-80
4 10 or so
5 No problem thanks for doing it
6. While I go to great lengths to achieve the best bolt placement possible, which to me means not adding any harder moves or awkward moves, height dependent moves to a route because of a bolt, If I've managed to botch something, I'd prefer it gets fixed ( if I don't have the time to do it myself) to provide a higher quality experience for those that follow.
7. wouldn't care, doubt any of my routes qualify, if you botch an entire route that badly you should probably not be bolting in the first place.
8. Drilled pins aren't free climbing gear unless you are in a very remote environment, imo. I can't really think of any good routes, sport routes that is, that have aid gear on them that I've done in the last 15 years or so.
9. climbing anchors keep people from eroding the cliff top and damaging trees. Trees should be used for anchors in remote traditional settings only-- i have only really used trees for anchors ice climbing--
10. unless you are on private land, imo all routes are community routes. I've always thought that when people "claimed ownership" of public land because they did a rock climb on it was beyond stupid or really just soothing their fragile ego. The climbing community at any given area usually does a pretty good job policing bad routes and wing nuts and this is why I think routes should be thought of as "belonging" to the entire community not 1 or 2 individuals. If someone bolts a route and red tags it fine, give em a season to send after that it's fair game, shouldn't have bolted something so far over your head and expect stronger people not be given a chance to do it. ego < community

[Crankmas]

Fix Jump for Joy to follow the natural line if anyone asks tell them Ashtray said it was cool. Crabtree is MIA and as such he is out of the equation; it would make for a much better line than having to reach (crux) far right to clip 4th? bolt- it is a good route waiting to be...

[Buster]

Real Name?Chris
Years _Climbing? 30
Approx number of _routes equipped / FA'ed I forget (more than 50 less than 100)
Number of your _routes that you have gone back to do Maintenance on? none
How do you feel about having the hardware on your _route replaced, if the new hardware goes pretty much in the same place (within a foot or so) of the original?If the fixed gear is eroding and you wanna do the root, go for it!.
How do you feel about having your _route slightly re-engineered (maybe add / remove a _bolt, or alter several of the placements)? Whatever, some of my roots need re-engineered. Please don't add bolts to Minimum Creep though.
How do you feel about have your _route totally re-engineered? IE, jump for joy could be a fun easy _route, if the line and anchors were shifted several feet to the left. Whatever.Please don't mess with the creep!
How do you feel about replacing a drilled pin with a _bolt? Drilled pins suck!
How do you feel about adding anchors at the top of the cliff to replace rapping from a tree. I love good anchors!
At what point, if any, does a _route become a _community _route? The moment the root is established.
Number or years? If the FA quits, moves away, etc. If it is on private land?
And, for the non-equippering older school people as well, what is your general thoughts on re-equipping a _route? Whenever I wanted to project one of the first wave roots (3/8 threaded shaft, cold shut anchors, etc...) I would replace the bolts and anchors. This was just for me. Sometimes I would move things around to make more sense. People got pissed but they are over it now (Maybe they are maybe they aren't) I moved bolts around on both Nicorette (this thing used to have 1 more bolt than it does now) and also on Thirsting Skull (again it used to have 1 more bolt) It just seemed like it made sense. We (the old crusty ones) replaced the anchors and bolts on all these routes:
Nicorette
Thirsting Skull
Fuzzy
Dinosaur
Tissue Tiger
Jac Mac
Gung Ho
Reliquary

My take is that there is no room for bad fixed gear. Most folks don't even think about it. I've witnessed two bolts pull out of Corbin sandstone. One of these bolts pulled when the climber swung off a steep route on top rope! Hugh had a bolt fail on Twinkie back in the day. Ashtray broke one on Hoofmaker this summer. There are still stacks of these time bombs just waiting to explode. The other day, I noticed that Super Slab has the original gear. Fixed gear is good for the guy or girl that places it, after that moment each fixed anchor is subject to doubt.