Just some questions for the old schoolers regarding _bolting. Not at all meant as a flame or anything like that, I am just wondering, since I do some re-equipping, and we are planning on getting out to some of the older _routes this winter.
Real Name?
Years _Climbing?
Approx number of _routes equipped / FA'ed
Number of your _routes that you have gone back to do Maintenance on?
How do you feel about having the hardware on your _route replaced, if the new hardware goes pretty much in the same place (within a foot or so) of the original?
How do you feel about having your _route slightly re-engineered (maybe add / remove a _bolt, or alter several of the placements)?
How do you feel about have your _route totally re-engineered? IE, jump for joy could be a fun easy _route, if the line and anchors were shifted several feet to the left.
How do you feel about replacing a drilled pin with a _bolt?
How do you feel about adding anchors at the top of the cliff to replace rapping from a tree.
At what point, if any, does a _route become a _community _route? Number or years? If the FA quits, moves away, etc. If it is on private land?
And, for the non-equippering older school people as well, what is your general thoughts on re-equipping a _route?
Questions for "old schoolers"
Questions for "old schoolers"
"There is no secret ingredient"
Po, the kung fu panda
Po, the kung fu panda
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the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm
I will start. Don't know how many routes I have done/ equipped. Several equipped but never RP'd. I have gone back to maintenance many of mine. From shifting bolts around after getting shit on placement, to wholesale rebolting b/c I used inferior gear initially (Straight Edge).
I absolutely do not care for anything I have had a hand in putting gear in being maintenanced. I was just thinking the other day when Terry, in what was prob his last route maintenance before he left us, called me from the base of Danita Dolores (a route which had originally taken a line (12a) up the middle of the face to the left of the arete and to the right of Min. Creep, which I changed b/c I got slagged for forcing a line where it would more naturally go, from none other than the Snyde). I was flattered that Terry, above all people would check with me. "Not necessary," I told him. "Do the right thing", which of course he did. Others have fixed my routes. Kenny Barker and "Chris Martin come to mind.
The one caveat I have ( and I don't think this pertains to many, if any, of my routes,) is putting in bolts to erase safe run outs. I purposefully engineered run outs up high on many of my routes. I believe they are safe and solicited input from my peers at the time and got the ok to do it. (Uncle Jeds Revenge, Big Sinking Breakdown are two examples). I can foresee a well meaning climber who might not have the stomach for the exciting "mind bending runout" (Porter re: top of Flashlight at FR), and change it. That would not be ok with me. The character of the route should stay the same, unless consensus says it is patently not safe.
I can attest to the difficulty of changing out hardware. I have rebolted several of PJ's routes. He better than anyone around had the knack to take the best spot for the bolt. I was often left with less than optimal choices to put the replacement. You do what you can.
IMO routes become community property at some time after the equipper is done with it, either having scored the FA or given up. As long as he/she has signed off that they are happy with the route as is as a finished product (hopefully having considered others input and made necessary changes).
I don't think the rest of Wes's questions pertain to me. My real name, btw, is grousing lass.
I absolutely do not care for anything I have had a hand in putting gear in being maintenanced. I was just thinking the other day when Terry, in what was prob his last route maintenance before he left us, called me from the base of Danita Dolores (a route which had originally taken a line (12a) up the middle of the face to the left of the arete and to the right of Min. Creep, which I changed b/c I got slagged for forcing a line where it would more naturally go, from none other than the Snyde). I was flattered that Terry, above all people would check with me. "Not necessary," I told him. "Do the right thing", which of course he did. Others have fixed my routes. Kenny Barker and "Chris Martin come to mind.
The one caveat I have ( and I don't think this pertains to many, if any, of my routes,) is putting in bolts to erase safe run outs. I purposefully engineered run outs up high on many of my routes. I believe they are safe and solicited input from my peers at the time and got the ok to do it. (Uncle Jeds Revenge, Big Sinking Breakdown are two examples). I can foresee a well meaning climber who might not have the stomach for the exciting "mind bending runout" (Porter re: top of Flashlight at FR), and change it. That would not be ok with me. The character of the route should stay the same, unless consensus says it is patently not safe.
I can attest to the difficulty of changing out hardware. I have rebolted several of PJ's routes. He better than anyone around had the knack to take the best spot for the bolt. I was often left with less than optimal choices to put the replacement. You do what you can.
IMO routes become community property at some time after the equipper is done with it, either having scored the FA or given up. As long as he/she has signed off that they are happy with the route as is as a finished product (hopefully having considered others input and made necessary changes).
I don't think the rest of Wes's questions pertain to me. My real name, btw, is grousing lass.
"It really is all good ! My thinking only occasionally calls it differently..."
Normie
Normie
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michaelarmand
- Posts: 527
- Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 1:08 pm
Bolting Gear
Wes,
I was in the red this weekend. I stopped at True north and left some equipment for you guys in the hands of Jake and Chris. The equipment was 10 fixe hangers 2 1/2x10 inch sds drill bits and a container of loctite 262. Let me know if you recieve them. Also i see you guys are re-doing anchors in the red this winter. I wanted to let you know that on whiteout at lady slipper the top rap anchors need to be re-done the right hanger is spinning. Also the bottom anchors could be placed in a better position possibly higher and right in front of the small leage at the top og the bottom flake and not down in the flake. If you need fixe ring anchors let me know i do have some.
Don
I was in the red this weekend. I stopped at True north and left some equipment for you guys in the hands of Jake and Chris. The equipment was 10 fixe hangers 2 1/2x10 inch sds drill bits and a container of loctite 262. Let me know if you recieve them. Also i see you guys are re-doing anchors in the red this winter. I wanted to let you know that on whiteout at lady slipper the top rap anchors need to be re-done the right hanger is spinning. Also the bottom anchors could be placed in a better position possibly higher and right in front of the small leage at the top og the bottom flake and not down in the flake. If you need fixe ring anchors let me know i do have some.
Don