The Judge is in the house! (or the return of peer review)

Post by **RRO** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:23 pm

you obviously want some much needed public attention and get your kicks off by causing drama for people bored at work or home. person to person is usually a decent way to address problems that you write about. im sure your wanting a full on flame war and hope that all the called out people go running with their tails between their legs praising your greater powers. in all honesty dude i could care less and will not get sucked into it. but if my name has been brought out i deserve to know what for. i will not sit here and bicker back and forth with you, if that is what you are after dont bother responding to anything. if you have something to say to me you know how to get a hold of me. but regardless of how you feel about the routes in question they are on private land, the hardware in the rock is not yours to remove, muir or pmrp. that hardware has been donated by many people and your blatant disrespect hits more than just the bolter. again your honor, i could care less what you or anyone thinks of a route i have climbed, bolted, aided, hiked, rappelled or pulled on gear to get to the top, i do not climb them for you or anyone else but myself. if you look up all the sport routes i have bolted or got the fa on online voting has them pretty high. i have never gave a line i have bolted 5 stars, never. i am very curious as to what route that i have bolted that have badly placed bolts. pm me, write it here or email me, hell call or gmail me chief. im all ears. if its cleaning you are whining about you have no clue what you are talking about. i have never left a route i bolted or got the fa on not scrubbed, ask anyone that has been around me while i have bolted. you have no idead how many hours i have spent scrubbing on routes, so i could climb them. and again, which route? a lot of the routes i enjoy are slabs/faces and seem to be on north facing walls, which are a bitch to stay clean. if that does not meet your quality control, talk to the creator. i bolted and cleaned the lines so I can climb them, if others are not psyched to get on them and chalk them to death and put black marks on all the feet that's totally cool with me, everyone is not in to jug haul steep enduro fests. if its a trad line, fuck it dude, i aint scrubbing nothing, i got dirty you get dirty. and dude, i guess your old crusty brain has warped and just don't remember there are so many old school routes that are dirty from lack of traffic or were less than steller to begin with. its doesnt take long to grow back, and ones man garbage is, well you get the picture. lets take torrent for example. the 10 walls are growing back and its not been that long at all since they were climbed regularly. im not 100% sure who you are and have not read this whole thread but have a decent idea. call out, talk shit whatever but dont strain relations and remove the hardware, its not your cliff or hardware to do so. in the end, if you truly want to help the community gather up with the team and go out and replace all the mank death bombs that all the old schoolers placed all over the area for many years. we do it quite often, but as hard as i try i dont think i have ever saw you or anyone from your crew out out doing that........

Post by **SCIN** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:18 pm

Matt for president.

Post by **the lurkist** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:19 pm

I applaud your initiative, Judge. You must have climbed Pogue Ethics one too many times and something snapped in your vigilante prone brain.
I am glad someone is going to restore order to the universe and man up to say "We have standards here and there is way too much rock out there to bolt shite".
Seriously, has anyone considered the dilemma of having a shitty route around (like those Jeff Hughes shit heaps up at Military) when the anchors have gotten questionable and need replacement? Just b/c it has been around for fifteen years, should it be replaced? And so, if the answer is no, then why not exercise some judgment sooner and take the fucking things down when the FAer chooses poorly his line and equips it. I.E. Peer Review.
Now, the problem with you, Judge, is that a party of one is not a broad enough peer review. The term peer, to me, connotes a community of people talking shit about a route for a while and giving the FAer a chance to redeem himself, and then at some time later, if the need changes haven't occured, someone chop the route.
I edited out some shit talking about someone's route. I wouldn't sleep good tonight. BTW, I have personally discussed my comments with the FAer in the past and he/she is well aware of my feelings, lest anyone accuse me of being a panty waste glad hander.
I do think the Judge is right about one thing. We are too nice. You don't have to be cruel (although you can if it makes you feel good), but being direct is good.

Post by **Saxman** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:40 pm

Just for a quick history lesson, what and/or how many routes have been chopped in the gorge?

Post by **the lurkist** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:57 pm

I take credit (or blame) for taking down the heap that used to exist at the Drive by on the short wall under Dirty Smelly Hippy. I knew the guy who put it up. He was this young guy from Michigan. Just got a new drill and was DYING to drill something, and that is the first thing he saw. I told him that there were much better things around and he should invest his gear in something more enduring. I even took him over and told him I would hang his rope on the classic mega arete that Matt bolted for the Aussie chick. He did it anyway. Heap 5.11 20 feet long. The route was up for prob 1-2 years. I finally went up it and took out the gear. BTW, I have never seen him since.
That is the thing about crappy routes. They can stand as a monument to someone's bad judgment, and by that token I guess it is worth letting them stay for a while. But as I said, eventually it becomes and upkeep issue.

Post by **mcrib** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 10:38 pm

I say leave the piles in place. If you can't tell it is absolute shit from the ground then climb it and if it turns out to be absolute shit then don't climb it again. I can't get in the mind of someone who would take the time and money to bolt something that will be praised by the gumbies of the world but if someone is out climbing Mercy Miss Percy than I don't have to be around them or wait in line behind them or not be able to park because their car is there. The more routes the better because that just spreads out the wankers.

Post by **RRO** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:04 pm

the fact that someone is shit talking routes is totally cool, been done since the first route went up in the caveman times while they were running from flesh eaters. thats what we as climbers and especially the internet clan do and have fun at it. the part thats funny as hell is the fact that someone that apparantly knows the board, been on it for long enough to know how it works, knows the reds climbing well and has climbed old and new routes needs to hide. they want to be a leader of route review but they want to hide behind a fake name. thats totally lame and makes you somewhat of a tool. if ya got shit to talk, name the route, step up and say it with your real name and lets talk about it. i think its funny everyone thats says props to said dude hiding behind a screen name for being so outspoken and honest. how honest is a fake name ?

Post by **heidiramma** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:16 pm

well said RRO

Post by **the lurkist** » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:54 pm

Its not me. I don't hide behind any fake name. I am The Lurkist!

Post by **charlie** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:05 am

It's Terry I think. There are quite a few routes that have gone up in the last few years that would not stand the test of his scrutiny.

Not that I care, I'm a mountain biker now.