Also, why is Chocolate Watefall so stinking hard at the bottom when it looks so easy? What gives? I hate that route!
Exacta?
Exacta?
I climbed Edge of Your Seat and Exacta again yesterday with a new climber. Edge of your Seat is sure fantastic, but Exacta?? The bottom is cool. The little traverse to the arete is cool (5.7??) and then you climb up the arete on good holds, only to have very reachy clips. Why are the bolts so far left? To keep it at 5.7 (if that's what it is) you have to climb way right of the bolts, risking some weird swinging falls. You also have to mantle onto a ledge above and right of a bolt, risking a nasty fall. I hate to play safety police (no I don't), but this route is going to get a new 5.7 leader hurt. My gumby partner wanted to lead it, but I asked him to try it on TR first. He was even scared on top rope because of the "pedulum factor". What gives? Am I doing something wrong???
Also, why is Chocolate Watefall so stinking hard at the bottom when it looks so easy? What gives? I hate that route!
Also, why is Chocolate Watefall so stinking hard at the bottom when it looks so easy? What gives? I hate that route!
[size=75]i may be weak, but i have bad technique[/size]
The main reason the bolts are on the face and not around the arete is to decrease rope drag. Also the climber should stay on the atete and not the slab to the right. I am not tall (and I do not have a long each), and I don't have any problems reaching the clips. But I am not opposed to moving some of the clip placements if needed. But on slabs and less than overhung routes there is allways risks in falling. ie: inverted, head thumping, ankle breaking, skin grating, plumetts. So be careful and climb smart.
Yeah, I stay on the arete, but it still seems the bolts are a bit far over. I wasn't suggesting they should be on the other face. Did Terry influence you on the bolt placement? ;-p He likes those straight lines of bolts. I figure it's way hard to have rope drag on a 40 foot route. It reminds me of Persian Gulf. If I climb near the bolts, I have a bad time. If I climb where I can enjoy it, the clips are a bit reachy.
Sorry to nit-pick, but it's only because I like the line itself. I figure it'll at least become a great place to go grab bail biners from!! Plus, I'm the chair of safety... you must LISTEN TO ME!
Sorry to nit-pick, but it's only because I like the line itself. I figure it'll at least become a great place to go grab bail biners from!! Plus, I'm the chair of safety... you must LISTEN TO ME!
[size=75]i may be weak, but i have bad technique[/size]
As much as we can all say that the leader SHOULD stay to the left of the arette, the reality is that most people (especially new leaders) are going to get to the right of the arette. Of the group I was with when we did it, I went first. I realized after making a big reach clip that it would have been easier to get out to the left of the arette to make it. I told everyone this and even yelled it up when other people were on it, but the ALL went right of the arette then reached out left.
It's just how people are going to do it, so it would probably be worth it to move those upper bolts closer to the arette - I don't think that the drag will be an issue.
It's just how people are going to do it, so it would probably be worth it to move those upper bolts closer to the arette - I don't think that the drag will be an issue.
Bacon is meat candy.
Hamsco,
If you had climbed Shaggy a few more times to see what a fine line is all about you wouldn't be getting all this criticism. If you aren't up for the task, try Hooky Pals. Not as hard, but certainly worth studying the intricate thought that went into placing bolts on a chossy line. I made sure that even a 5.10 leader would think twice before letting go with one hand just to clip! Oooooh, I'm feeling warm and tickly inside again!
Mayor,
If you would stop having all your standards for life based on young, nubile, impressionable, supple, smooth skinned 13-year old girls, you might have some perspective. I know you think you're just protecting them, but that's what those Catholic priests said about their deeds too.
tomdarch,
You're from Chicago, and isn't really windy there? I would think you'd climb a route like Exacta and expect a big gust to come along. You're probably leaning in anticipation for the gust, but the Red don't got no weather like that! Try climbing indoors for a while to get the hang of it.
Also, if you're going to be yelling safety beta to fellow climbers and they don't listen, that's a sign to climb with somebody else. Their behavior was harsh, dude.
If you had climbed Shaggy a few more times to see what a fine line is all about you wouldn't be getting all this criticism. If you aren't up for the task, try Hooky Pals. Not as hard, but certainly worth studying the intricate thought that went into placing bolts on a chossy line. I made sure that even a 5.10 leader would think twice before letting go with one hand just to clip! Oooooh, I'm feeling warm and tickly inside again!
Mayor,
If you would stop having all your standards for life based on young, nubile, impressionable, supple, smooth skinned 13-year old girls, you might have some perspective. I know you think you're just protecting them, but that's what those Catholic priests said about their deeds too.
tomdarch,
You're from Chicago, and isn't really windy there? I would think you'd climb a route like Exacta and expect a big gust to come along. You're probably leaning in anticipation for the gust, but the Red don't got no weather like that! Try climbing indoors for a while to get the hang of it.
Also, if you're going to be yelling safety beta to fellow climbers and they don't listen, that's a sign to climb with somebody else. Their behavior was harsh, dude.
No matter where the bolts are placed on a route, you can bet the climber will take the easiest path to the anchors as long as they're still within a reasonable distance from the bolts.
From what I've seen, if a bolter tries to steer the climber away from huge features (jugs, flakes, huecos) by not placing the bolt near the feature then the climber will still head toward the feature. The route then becomes a bad bolt job because everyone else is going to do the same thing.
For a good example of this, look at Mas Choss. You can either crank over the roof and do some insane moves on blank rock or you can head 20 feet out left to get to a flake the size of a house. What do you think most people do? You guessed it. They head out to the gigantic flake then call the route a shit bolt job because of the potential death swing onto the slab below.
Edge of Your Seat kicks ass man. Nice work Hamsco.
From what I've seen, if a bolter tries to steer the climber away from huge features (jugs, flakes, huecos) by not placing the bolt near the feature then the climber will still head toward the feature. The route then becomes a bad bolt job because everyone else is going to do the same thing.
For a good example of this, look at Mas Choss. You can either crank over the roof and do some insane moves on blank rock or you can head 20 feet out left to get to a flake the size of a house. What do you think most people do? You guessed it. They head out to the gigantic flake then call the route a shit bolt job because of the potential death swing onto the slab below.
Edge of Your Seat kicks ass man. Nice work Hamsco.
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-Horatio
-Horatio
Thanks Scotty for the props. But really, I owe my laser eye for a good line to all my partners and climbing idols I've had over the years. I couldn't have done it without leaders in the community like Martin Hackworth (yes, I could only stand to climb with him for one day, but I got to hear him talk about climbing routes he never actually did for hours at Miguels), Chuck and Steve who taught me that anything you could get up was 3 stars, even if you couldn't find it again, Big Keith who was going to fight Porter over some holly trees, that poor guy (was his name Sam?) who got his face bit off at Long Wall by Tom Souder's guard dog,...oh the list goes on forever. But really, don't you think Block and Tackle set the standard for what we're talking about?