Besides you?the lurkist wrote:any idea who bolt them?
Mariba Fork
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the lurkist
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captain static
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I spoke to the Forest Service today and they have looked at the legal description for the Forest boundary in this area. They said that the description clearly states that the boundary is at the top of the cliff. This would imply that the renegade routes are on Forest Service land not on private land and are thus within the boundary of the Clifty Wilderness Area. This also means that these climbs would be included in Limits of Acceptable Change considerations for the Mariba Fork climbing area.
According to policy set by the Climbing Advisory Council when it existed an attempt was made to locate the first ascentionists when the Forest Service discovered the renegade routes. The apparent story on the first ascentionists was that they were from Indiana and were no longer involved in climbing? No names were offered. It is not the RRGCC role to be bolt police and we rely on the climbing community at-large to act responsibly.
The above being said, it is my personal opinion that these two sport routes are outside of the character of Mariba Fork, an area considered to be a secluded traditional climbing area with a wilderness like setting.
According to policy set by the Climbing Advisory Council when it existed an attempt was made to locate the first ascentionists when the Forest Service discovered the renegade routes. The apparent story on the first ascentionists was that they were from Indiana and were no longer involved in climbing? No names were offered. It is not the RRGCC role to be bolt police and we rely on the climbing community at-large to act responsibly.
The above being said, it is my personal opinion that these two sport routes are outside of the character of Mariba Fork, an area considered to be a secluded traditional climbing area with a wilderness like setting.
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
Hint, hint, wink, wink...captain static wrote:The above being said, it is my personal opinion that these two sport routes are outside of the character of Mariba Fork, an area considered to be a secluded traditional climbing area with a wilderness like setting.
Did the FS give any indication as to what they would like done with the bolts?
Thanks for clarifying!
As for chopping I think that the damage has been done. Leave 'em up there. I agree with not publishing them but maybe a brief mention in the future guide would be nice just as a reference point. I felt really out of place after seeing them there. Maybe even a little dirty.
I guess, if they aren't published we could all get our FA's on them and name them whatever we want!
BJ-Maybe you need to invest in a rickshaw and some sherpas if your pansy ass can't handle the RED!
As for chopping I think that the damage has been done. Leave 'em up there. I agree with not publishing them but maybe a brief mention in the future guide would be nice just as a reference point. I felt really out of place after seeing them there. Maybe even a little dirty.
I guess, if they aren't published we could all get our FA's on them and name them whatever we want!
BJ-Maybe you need to invest in a rickshaw and some sherpas if your pansy ass can't handle the RED!
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captain static
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- Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2002 6:05 pm
Actually the damage is NOT already done. When I went to look at the lines with climbing researcher Chris Carr there were no visible impacts (e.g. chalk, trampling at the base, trash). If people start climbing these routes any impacts will figure into Limits of Acceptable Change considerations for the entire area. If LAC Standards are exceeded, management actions by the Forest Service will follow.
I have to wonder out loud whether people will go to Mariba for two mediocre sport climbs? At the same time I have to wonder if people do start climbing these routes and cause impacts that trigger LAC would it be worth it?
I have to wonder out loud whether people will go to Mariba for two mediocre sport climbs? At the same time I have to wonder if people do start climbing these routes and cause impacts that trigger LAC would it be worth it?
"Be responsible for your actions and sensitive to the concerns of other visitors and land managers. ... Your reward is the opportunity to climb in one of the most beautiful areas in this part of the country." John H. Bronaugh
I was thinking of damage that has already been to the rock, thank you for pointing out the impact that these routes could have on the area in the future, I was overlooking that, as well as the precedent that these routes might set for future bolting ethics in Mariba Fork and other areas in the Red.
We are fortunate to be able to climb in so many wonderful areas in such a beautiful landscape and it is unfortunate that people do not recognize and honor the responsibily that they have to maintain these areas in their natural state. I am reminded of this everytime that I pass a trail of toilet paper off to the side of trail, or end up hauling out discarded bottles and trash from people that had enjoyed the area before me or even the route tags at Muir Valley!
I enjoy places like Mariba Fork, and Trad climbing in general because there seems to be a greater respect for the preservation of the natural environment and climbing ethics in general (no hard feelings towards sport climbing, i am guilty of it myself!)
I was disappointed to see the bolts, and that's why.
We are fortunate to be able to climb in so many wonderful areas in such a beautiful landscape and it is unfortunate that people do not recognize and honor the responsibily that they have to maintain these areas in their natural state. I am reminded of this everytime that I pass a trail of toilet paper off to the side of trail, or end up hauling out discarded bottles and trash from people that had enjoyed the area before me or even the route tags at Muir Valley!
I enjoy places like Mariba Fork, and Trad climbing in general because there seems to be a greater respect for the preservation of the natural environment and climbing ethics in general (no hard feelings towards sport climbing, i am guilty of it myself!)
I was disappointed to see the bolts, and that's why.
I'm saying that I'm not terribly fond of any of that; trash, bolts, gravel parking, gravel roads, bridges, wood signs, destruction of plant life, impacting the natural habitat of animals, route tags, foot traffic, people yelling back and forth at eachother while they are climbing, etc. It all takes away from the natural beauty of the area. Let's just minimize the impact as much as possible. Some people prefer climbing in the gym, some people like route tags, whatever floats your boat! People are using the Red for many different recreational activities, we are fortunate to have it so let's keep roads, trash, signs, vegetation destruction, tags, bolts, etc. to a minimum.Saxman wrote:So bolts in the rock, trails, gravel parking areas, gravel roads, wood bridges, wood signs, and tree/plant pruning and removal are ok but route tags are not? WTF?