new guidebook

[RRO]

hijacked ? at least put it in the flame forum. its been good fun.

[rhunt]

ahh and to stir the pot more. RRO, those beloved big wall routes that end up going free that were once hard aid testpieces, how do you think they end up going free? Bolts! They bolt the shit out of those blank walls and shallow cracks and then send them free. in my mind, it takes way more balls to do a super hard aid route than to crank on a 5.13 bolt protected route...even if the bolts are a bit run out. Bolts were around back in the day when these routes were first going up as aid routes (although I doubt they called them aid routes) but they choose to only use them when absolutely necessary and usually only at belays.

just my 2 cents.

[RRO]

no shit stirred with me sir, i agree. most climbers of today are wuss's, myself included. kor, harding, pratt , robbins, long, day and so on had balls that made them climb well, we have gear and drills to make us climb well.

[pigsteak]

take lunch, and look what happens...y'all argue without me...that is soooo lame.

rro, I get my glory on here now. I haven't touched real rock in over 14 months.

[Alan Evil]

So I've noticed there's another level of first ascent: first ascent by a female. I've always thought this was bogus since most climber chicks can outclimb me blindfolded, cramping, on the rag, and with one or more limbs in casts.

Maybe there should be first ascent by an old fart FAOF (I guess that would be what? Over thirty?).

FMA: First ascent by a total moron.

FDA: First ascent by someone with diarrhea.

FSR: First sport rappel.

And then, because it just must be: FPA. First Piggie Ascent.

[pigsteak]

Mr. Evil,

I am honored. But Underoos has to have his own designation as well. And let's not forget Corpse, even though he refuses to put quicklinks on his routes.

[SCIN]

What I'm saying, Shamis, is that just because something is existent doesn't mean it's correct. FFA does mean the first person who reached the top regardless of how they got there. That idea may go right up there with the idea of having slaves and putting cocaine in Coke.

You keep saying FFA means first person to reach the top regardless of how they got there, but that's what I associate with FA. FFA has always implied a clean free ascent to me.

Yea, I wasn't proofreading. I meant FA.

[L K Day]

Shamis, you are absolutely correct. Your understanding of the meaning of FA and FFA is certainly what everyone meant from as far back as I know of. It is the advent of sport climbing and the pursuit of the first "send" that seems to have people confused, at least in The Red. I've never heard of a discussion like this before, anywhere.

Once again, since way before anyone called it Trad.
If you were a member of the first ascent party, and you climbed the route bottom to top, you were in on the FA.
If you were a member of the first party to climb it all free, that means you didn't weight pro except at the belays, you were in on the FFA.

It's pretty fucking simple, really.

I gather that with sport climbing the FA is really the only thing that counts.

[Shamis]

Once again, since way before anyone called it Trad.

lol. I remember when I first heard the word 'trad'. I hated it. It was as if somebody had decided to create a cool buzzword for real climbing

[pigsteak]

But Mr. day, your definitions go against everything the locals here call it. in both your defintions, folks must actually start at the bottom and get to the top of a route. Correct me if I am wrong, RRO, but I think you are saying that the true FA can list anyone they want in the FA party. Those listed do not even have to have necessarily tried the route. So if RRO belays me 16 times and I finally send, I can list him on the FA. Is that where the rub is? Old timers say a person has to at least climb the route. Us sporties make up our rules as we go along.

BTW, I started using the "current" definition of FA when I was set straight last summer.