About Clip-ups.
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Horatio Felacio
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:26 pm
All grades are general, approximate, and subjective. You have to be honest with yourself. Something thats 11d for you might really be 12whatever for somebody who's shorter, has bigger fingers, whatever....ashtray wrote: But soft grades ruin it for me more than anything. When you do a route that is hard for the grade (or just right) then you know what you have personally accomplished. When the grade for a route is soft, I personally feel kinda cheated. I hate when this happens, "Oh, I onsighted that 12c, but it felt like 11d."
Be proud of what you accomplish, not what the number says you accomplished.
Lots of people would argue that all sport routes are "overbolted rigs". Like you said, its a subjective evaluation. Frankly, why does it matter if there are more bolts or not?ashtray wrote: The next for me are overbolted rigs. They suck too, but that is a subjective valuation and it should be approached on a case by case basis. For example, Blank canvas looks overbolted from the ground, but I was happy to clip every one of them and the climbing really lended itself to the bolt placements (except the 3rd to last which needs moving).
It all just sounds so 1988, or in the case of the RRG.... 1995
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
Whore-ratio - They were very clever indeed. buster is a genius. oh, i mean clever.
And Horatio, please stop sending me sexually harassing private messages threatening me with blackmail. I know you really want my tight little man-booty, but you can't have it. I am saving it for when I finally get married. And yes, I am still a virgin back there (not counting the time I was constipated for four days and then ripped an all-time record turd).
Now back to the matter at hand. I think the following assertions hold true for climbers of my ilk.
(soft_grade || overbolted ) != classic_route.
and (soft_grade && overbolted) == lameness.
&& - logical AND ; || - logical OR ; != - not equivalent
It is a fact of life, I am afraid. People don't respect routes of that character. Sure they may do them, but it is kinda like riding a moped. That is the word directly from the cool kids (qualification - the author is !cool , but does know cool kids).
Finally, to 512OW - touché.
but touché this! i like sport climbing, and I am very happy that you are such a radical traditional climber. Or is it mountaineer? And talk about a dead horse, trad. vs. sport. Let us start a new controversy. Join us. Don’t fight it, you know you want to.
And Horatio, please stop sending me sexually harassing private messages threatening me with blackmail. I know you really want my tight little man-booty, but you can't have it. I am saving it for when I finally get married. And yes, I am still a virgin back there (not counting the time I was constipated for four days and then ripped an all-time record turd).
Now back to the matter at hand. I think the following assertions hold true for climbers of my ilk.
(soft_grade || overbolted ) != classic_route.
and (soft_grade && overbolted) == lameness.
&& - logical AND ; || - logical OR ; != - not equivalent
It is a fact of life, I am afraid. People don't respect routes of that character. Sure they may do them, but it is kinda like riding a moped. That is the word directly from the cool kids (qualification - the author is !cool , but does know cool kids).
Finally, to 512OW - touché.
but touché this! i like sport climbing, and I am very happy that you are such a radical traditional climber. Or is it mountaineer? And talk about a dead horse, trad. vs. sport. Let us start a new controversy. Join us. Don’t fight it, you know you want to.
just to clarify ashtray, you are old and the mind can be the first thing to go. 5.2TR sold his #6 and burned his superman shirt years ago. he recently bought a squid and is sporting a prana shirt, he switched from bourbon to vitamin water as well. rumor has it he is shaving now. truth is, he has no dog in this fight.
http://www.redriveroutdoors.com
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
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Horatio Felacio
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:26 pm
and back on subject. great subject by the way.
i have not been climbing in about a month, stuck in lex working and im pissed and drinking a beer. i think im gonna go down the line and rant. if i were you i would not waste my employers time reading the below statements.
1.Dangerous route.
as far as bolting "safe" routes.... i think with the popularity of climbing right now and with the type of lands we use, a sport route should be bolted relatively safe, its a "sport" route, period. dont get me wrong, some of my favorite routes are considered "unsafe" sport climbs but most of those were old and developed in a different time. and yes i think general climbing ethics pertaining to this matter have turned a little weak sauce, in every region. but with americas litigious habits, no one wanting to take responsibility for their own actions/judgment/climbing ability and most importantly most the reds popular sport crags are on private land what do you do. to me a dangerous "sport" route is plain crazy. an unneeded run out, ground fall from up high or a bad fall most of the time is just plain laziness and possibly not taking pride in your work. while i am ranting i will rant on myself. i have bolted a few harder 11's that just needed to go to the top, the top turned to 5.7 after 70 feet of 5,11 slab, so the bolts are well spaced. it wasnt laziness or not taking pride. but sometimes its just rock climbing and you just have to deal with it. what do you do if you encounter a first bolt that is too high and you dont have a stick clip or you see bolts a little ran out ? you man up, take responsibility for your self and your ability , analyze the route and either grab sack and go or move to the next route.
2. Manky Bolts.
If they are new, the route is open and the bolts are f'd up what do you do ? punch the driller and take the drill from him, they dont need to be using it. if you drill enough holes your gonna get a spinner or if your a speedy driller and dont test before you drill your gonna get a hanger that does not sit flat. its a simple solution, fix it before you open the route and take your time ! if its an old route with a spinner or mank ass shit, same simple solution, fix it or tell someone that knows how.
3.Grades
grades suck and not in the good way. get over it. its a good route or a bad route. you were on that day or off that day. the route developer worked the route to get the bolts in the right place, a hold broke after the fa.it was too hot or it was too cold. you had morning nookie and didnt recover or you have went months without and are down and out. once again, get over it. but if your gonna mess with grades, sandbagging is the only way to go. i like to piss people off....
4. not designated for shorties.
tall people climb, short people bitch. but really, if the developer approached the route correctly and tr'd it then they would have found the clip stances and bolted for a mixture of people. older routes are excluded from this. sometimes you may not be able to clip every 3 feet, you just might have to climb a little from bolt to bolt and you just may have to clip at your waist instead of above your head. simple soultion, go be a jockey and sell me your rack.
5.steered line.
routes that do not follow a natural line bug the hell out of me. when someones says you didnt do a route cause you used a rest thats a couple feet to the side or climbed to the left of the bolts instead of the right is just plain stupid. crowded routes piss me off too. if you can clip a bolt from 2 routes go bushwhack a little more before you drill.
6. arbitrary anchor
if the climbing is 10d for 70 feet and all of a sudden it turns 13d for 5 feet put the anchors in and call it a 10. if the route is 12b and all of a sudden you have 10 feet of 13a then take it to the top.
7. choss. choss. choss.
whats wrong with this one ? a chossy trad line is a great thing but a sport rote that changes with every accent shouldnt be bolted in the first place. if a small section of a 80 foot route is a little chossy, thats cool. its the red, its all crumblies.
8.love it all
hell yeah !! thats what climbing is about. every route tells a story and should be climbed. either its one you do again or its not. you learn from each.
9.scin.
wikipedia: scin- 1.sport climbing is neither. 2.the dreamy guidebook authors online persona also known as ray ellington to general society. this once trad hard man began shaving his legs for biking and running. seeing how the ladies and the men reacted he decided to go to the crag in his running shorts. first day at the crag, other bare legged hommies took notice and offered him their "stick clip" and a run on their proj. he soon started enjoying the autograph sessions at the local fad crags and has not looked back.
10. bolts where gear should be.
if we were 100% honest with ourselves, most the routes in the area could go mixed with little if any serious run outs. i think its funny and maybe im wrong but when you hear people bitch its not about the 12s and up with a section of pockets, flakes, horizontals or cracks than could be protected on gear, im sure the %'s are as many or more than "moderate" routes. its usually those that climb that grade bitching about the easier routes that could be protected. if we want to go old school then come strong and go balls out and do it on routes of all grades.
sorry to have wasted your time...... but all i have to do is be white and die. have a kick ass day and hug your neighbor
i have not been climbing in about a month, stuck in lex working and im pissed and drinking a beer. i think im gonna go down the line and rant. if i were you i would not waste my employers time reading the below statements.
1.Dangerous route.
as far as bolting "safe" routes.... i think with the popularity of climbing right now and with the type of lands we use, a sport route should be bolted relatively safe, its a "sport" route, period. dont get me wrong, some of my favorite routes are considered "unsafe" sport climbs but most of those were old and developed in a different time. and yes i think general climbing ethics pertaining to this matter have turned a little weak sauce, in every region. but with americas litigious habits, no one wanting to take responsibility for their own actions/judgment/climbing ability and most importantly most the reds popular sport crags are on private land what do you do. to me a dangerous "sport" route is plain crazy. an unneeded run out, ground fall from up high or a bad fall most of the time is just plain laziness and possibly not taking pride in your work. while i am ranting i will rant on myself. i have bolted a few harder 11's that just needed to go to the top, the top turned to 5.7 after 70 feet of 5,11 slab, so the bolts are well spaced. it wasnt laziness or not taking pride. but sometimes its just rock climbing and you just have to deal with it. what do you do if you encounter a first bolt that is too high and you dont have a stick clip or you see bolts a little ran out ? you man up, take responsibility for your self and your ability , analyze the route and either grab sack and go or move to the next route.
2. Manky Bolts.
If they are new, the route is open and the bolts are f'd up what do you do ? punch the driller and take the drill from him, they dont need to be using it. if you drill enough holes your gonna get a spinner or if your a speedy driller and dont test before you drill your gonna get a hanger that does not sit flat. its a simple solution, fix it before you open the route and take your time ! if its an old route with a spinner or mank ass shit, same simple solution, fix it or tell someone that knows how.
3.Grades
grades suck and not in the good way. get over it. its a good route or a bad route. you were on that day or off that day. the route developer worked the route to get the bolts in the right place, a hold broke after the fa.it was too hot or it was too cold. you had morning nookie and didnt recover or you have went months without and are down and out. once again, get over it. but if your gonna mess with grades, sandbagging is the only way to go. i like to piss people off....
4. not designated for shorties.
tall people climb, short people bitch. but really, if the developer approached the route correctly and tr'd it then they would have found the clip stances and bolted for a mixture of people. older routes are excluded from this. sometimes you may not be able to clip every 3 feet, you just might have to climb a little from bolt to bolt and you just may have to clip at your waist instead of above your head. simple soultion, go be a jockey and sell me your rack.
5.steered line.
routes that do not follow a natural line bug the hell out of me. when someones says you didnt do a route cause you used a rest thats a couple feet to the side or climbed to the left of the bolts instead of the right is just plain stupid. crowded routes piss me off too. if you can clip a bolt from 2 routes go bushwhack a little more before you drill.
6. arbitrary anchor
if the climbing is 10d for 70 feet and all of a sudden it turns 13d for 5 feet put the anchors in and call it a 10. if the route is 12b and all of a sudden you have 10 feet of 13a then take it to the top.
7. choss. choss. choss.
whats wrong with this one ? a chossy trad line is a great thing but a sport rote that changes with every accent shouldnt be bolted in the first place. if a small section of a 80 foot route is a little chossy, thats cool. its the red, its all crumblies.
8.love it all
hell yeah !! thats what climbing is about. every route tells a story and should be climbed. either its one you do again or its not. you learn from each.
9.scin.
wikipedia: scin- 1.sport climbing is neither. 2.the dreamy guidebook authors online persona also known as ray ellington to general society. this once trad hard man began shaving his legs for biking and running. seeing how the ladies and the men reacted he decided to go to the crag in his running shorts. first day at the crag, other bare legged hommies took notice and offered him their "stick clip" and a run on their proj. he soon started enjoying the autograph sessions at the local fad crags and has not looked back.
10. bolts where gear should be.
if we were 100% honest with ourselves, most the routes in the area could go mixed with little if any serious run outs. i think its funny and maybe im wrong but when you hear people bitch its not about the 12s and up with a section of pockets, flakes, horizontals or cracks than could be protected on gear, im sure the %'s are as many or more than "moderate" routes. its usually those that climb that grade bitching about the easier routes that could be protected. if we want to go old school then come strong and go balls out and do it on routes of all grades.
sorry to have wasted your time...... but all i have to do is be white and die. have a kick ass day and hug your neighbor
http://www.redriveroutdoors.com
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
-
Horatio Felacio
- Posts: 3338
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 7:26 pm
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the lurkist
- Posts: 2240
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 2:07 pm
Uhh... huh? Did you read what I posted? Sounded to me like I was championing for however the hell many bolts the FA decided on...ashtray wrote: Finally, to 512OW - touché.
but touché this! i like sport climbing, and I am very happy that you are such a radical traditional climber. Or is it mountaineer? And talk about a dead horse, trad. vs. sport. Let us start a new controversy. Join us. Don’t fight it, you know you want to.
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken."
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com
-Tyler Durden
www.odubmusic.com