Rating the Routes
rating routes
Administrators, have you ever thought about forcing users to rate a route both on the star system and the grading system before they are allowed to put it on their tick list? This would certainly increase the number of responses for each. I don't know if it would make for better consensus grades or not but I bet the star sytstem ratings would be more accurate.
man, I am worried about all of you...my question has been avoided, or more likely, I can't write clearly.
let me try again. yes, mr. guidebook author, I know you had the 5 star system first time around....no prob. my question is how your 5 star system correlates to johnny's 3 star system. I "think" you are telling me that there is zero correlation.
and that in edition 2, there will also be no correlation between the online 5 star system and the book's 5 star scale. (ie..there will be "fewer" 5 star routes, which means you will be tampering with the votes ....hmmmm, are you a republican?)
so how do routes that went up after johnny's book get onto his 3 star list? you, mr. guidebook author, have somehow meshed the two systems....let me give an example for you blind libbies who vote online and should be appalled that your vote doesn't count.
let's say there is a route named "butt bunion". It is rated 5.10c by the FA, which makes it harder than mr. guidebook author can climb. therefore, he can not go out and climb it like the other 2,156 routes at the red he has personally beta tested. since he can not climb that route, he will have to rely on word of mouth and the online guide to come up with a 3star rating online, and a 5 star rating for the new guide. after 34 sends, "butt bunion" has an online rating of 3.85 out of 5 stars.
now, mr. urban, what grade will that route get on the 3 star scale? and how do you derive that?
conversley, if the route gets a score of .89 out of 5, does it then get one star? or zero stars?
that's all..thank you for your time.
let me try again. yes, mr. guidebook author, I know you had the 5 star system first time around....no prob. my question is how your 5 star system correlates to johnny's 3 star system. I "think" you are telling me that there is zero correlation.
and that in edition 2, there will also be no correlation between the online 5 star system and the book's 5 star scale. (ie..there will be "fewer" 5 star routes, which means you will be tampering with the votes ....hmmmm, are you a republican?)
so how do routes that went up after johnny's book get onto his 3 star list? you, mr. guidebook author, have somehow meshed the two systems....let me give an example for you blind libbies who vote online and should be appalled that your vote doesn't count.
let's say there is a route named "butt bunion". It is rated 5.10c by the FA, which makes it harder than mr. guidebook author can climb. therefore, he can not go out and climb it like the other 2,156 routes at the red he has personally beta tested. since he can not climb that route, he will have to rely on word of mouth and the online guide to come up with a 3star rating online, and a 5 star rating for the new guide. after 34 sends, "butt bunion" has an online rating of 3.85 out of 5 stars.
now, mr. urban, what grade will that route get on the 3 star scale? and how do you derive that?
conversley, if the route gets a score of .89 out of 5, does it then get one star? or zero stars?
that's all..thank you for your time.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
Okay, first of all here is how I gave stars this time around. Any of you can shoot me or write a guidebook yourself if you don't agree with this because it's difficult to please everyone.
I didn't say there will be no correlation between the online guide and the new guide. If anything the votes in the online guide will play a bigger part in my determination of the star quality of a route in the 2nd edition. I really pay attention to those votes in the online guide. Why you ask? Well, would you rather have one man's opinion (me) of a route or 10 peoples opinion of a route that may have a couple of jackass votes thrown in? I would trust 10 people with a possible skew over my opinion. Especially if I haven't even had a chance to climb the damn route. Previous guidebooks were based on one of the following: a. Johnny looking at the route from the ground. b. Word of mouth (which was usually from the FA and we all know how much FAs love their routes (eh um Pigsteak), or c. Johnny's opinion (he admittedly had low standards).
The lines that have 5 stars this time around are only the obvious classics. Most everyone knows these lines. They more than likely, if they've been voted on, have between 4.9-5 stars out of more than 5 votes. For example, Amarillo Sunset, Rock Wars, etc. I got a lot of shit for having so many 5 star routes in the previous guidebook at Muir Valley that weren't really 5 stars so a lot of the cutting has been there. It was a new area and I only had what I was given. Plus I was under a severe time crunch to get Muir Valley into the last edition. There are definitely still some 5 star lines there but not as many. 5 star lines are absolute classics or have the FA name of Ray Ellington next to them (requirement of a guidebook author to always rate their own routes better than they are).
I don't really put ANY thought into the 3 star system anymore when I enter it into the online guide. I don't think a 3 star system is broad enough to cover how good or bad a route is. Also it would be my opinion alone and I know that soon I'll be updating it to the 5 star system soon. I suggest not paying any attention to the astericks next to the new route names in the online guide.
Does that answer your question bacon boy? Is this really any concern of yours? Your position is "route developer". Since when are you trying to question what I do around here? Should I can the Union bosses and have you taken care of?
I didn't say there will be no correlation between the online guide and the new guide. If anything the votes in the online guide will play a bigger part in my determination of the star quality of a route in the 2nd edition. I really pay attention to those votes in the online guide. Why you ask? Well, would you rather have one man's opinion (me) of a route or 10 peoples opinion of a route that may have a couple of jackass votes thrown in? I would trust 10 people with a possible skew over my opinion. Especially if I haven't even had a chance to climb the damn route. Previous guidebooks were based on one of the following: a. Johnny looking at the route from the ground. b. Word of mouth (which was usually from the FA and we all know how much FAs love their routes (eh um Pigsteak), or c. Johnny's opinion (he admittedly had low standards).
The lines that have 5 stars this time around are only the obvious classics. Most everyone knows these lines. They more than likely, if they've been voted on, have between 4.9-5 stars out of more than 5 votes. For example, Amarillo Sunset, Rock Wars, etc. I got a lot of shit for having so many 5 star routes in the previous guidebook at Muir Valley that weren't really 5 stars so a lot of the cutting has been there. It was a new area and I only had what I was given. Plus I was under a severe time crunch to get Muir Valley into the last edition. There are definitely still some 5 star lines there but not as many. 5 star lines are absolute classics or have the FA name of Ray Ellington next to them (requirement of a guidebook author to always rate their own routes better than they are).
I don't really put ANY thought into the 3 star system anymore when I enter it into the online guide. I don't think a 3 star system is broad enough to cover how good or bad a route is. Also it would be my opinion alone and I know that soon I'll be updating it to the 5 star system soon. I suggest not paying any attention to the astericks next to the new route names in the online guide.
Does that answer your question bacon boy? Is this really any concern of yours? Your position is "route developer". Since when are you trying to question what I do around here? Should I can the Union bosses and have you taken care of?
Sounds like you got it covered. Stars are subjective. It's hard to judge a route fairly. After climbing a few years you only like certain kinds of routes anyway. I prefer hand and fist cracks. Some people hate slabs. I wish more people would bother to rate routes that they send so the consensus would be better.
"Everyone should have a plan for the zombie apocolipse" Courtney
clearly 512OW and SCIN only put up trad lines in their climbing youth, so if it has even a single bolt I am sure the masses would know it was a farce if either of your names was attached to an FA on a sport line...speaking of that, because of the johnny-esque mass amount of bolts I put in when I first arrived here (which was merely a ploy to use SCIN's indoor wall), I have bolted more than my share of crap.
I am sure the online community can name a dozen of my lines that deserve to be chopped. To ensure that my feelings aren't hurt and that I get myhangers back, please PM those route names. I will either chop them or gladly relinquish FA status to 512OW....
I am sure the online community can name a dozen of my lines that deserve to be chopped. To ensure that my feelings aren't hurt and that I get myhangers back, please PM those route names. I will either chop them or gladly relinquish FA status to 512OW....
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.