Child star gone sad

[pigsteak]

well said rhunt..I just figured the christians had already been handed their head on a platter.

[Overcammed]

The most interesting thing to me in those videos was the bit about the commandment for "Have no other gods before me" - idolatry.

I think the way they explained it really sheds light on the way that fundamentalist literal-interpretation of the bible think. Basically, the thinking goes that if you have any beliefs other than word-for-word what the bible says (or what Kirk Cameron says), then you have created a false god in your mind, and when you then worship this false god, you are committing idolatry. So now I see why they get so pissed when you say things like "Well, I guess I just have slightly different beliefs".

And of course now I'm waiting for the soon-to-happen post on here where someone writes:

"It is so sad that you are all going to hell! I'll be praying for all of you!"

C'mon, who's gonna write it? You know you want to!

[bcombs]

Hey Overcammed,

...sorry for the interruption...

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...Sorry, back to the regularly scheduled religious debate...

[gunslnga]

And of course now I'm waiting for the soon-to-happen post on here where someone writes:

"It is so sad that you are all going to hell! I'll be praying for all of you!"

C'mon, who's gonna write it? You know you want to!

"Judge not, lest you shall be judged"

[Crankmas]

I get the impression that both Christians and non believers sometimes lose sight of the concept of God's kingdom is not of this world, he created this world though so try not to f--- it up too much.

[pigsteak]

gunny..are you asking the non-believers to also not be so judgemental? isn't it funny when they are are sharing their assessment of the religous world they throw "judgements" around yet hate it when the religous nuts do the same?

rhunt, what's the word? duplicity?

[JB]

it's so easy to hate "them". "those people", "they".

for example, rockman hates on christians and i may hate on atheists, but when we're together, in person, we are simply two fucked up human beings having a conversation. we eschew the notions of "those people" that we have so labeled, as neither of us form quite into the mold that we have made for the other. we are both just trying our best to make sense of things.

so maybe we should watch out how we label people. chances are that what you absoultely know about christians has little to do with what i believe. and likewise what i absolutely know about atheists has little to do with what you actually believe or feel.

read rob bell's "velvet elvis: repainting the christian faith" if you'd like a look at the "subversive" form of christianity that i practice. if you choose NOT to learn about me or ask me about what i believe, then please reserve judgment for when you actually DO know what i believe in.

i'll do the same for you. okay?

[Crankmas]

did you fall off the globe and hit your head? good to hear from you JB post some more killer photos, have you done any of those ridge routes that were profiled in the climbing porn mags lately? have you taken on any more wives since you relocated?

[caribe]

well, since you took this on a tangent, i will continue the tangent....for those who find faith from Christians sort of "dark ages" and very primal, I submit that also being an "atheist" falls under the same heading..both are based on a faith system which neither can scientifically verify. no atheist can say with a shadow of a doubt there is no god, any more than a christian can say there is a god...

Ah yes, a logical fallacy. Believing in god is equivalent (or just as intellectually respectable) to not believing in god. NOT. Believing X is patently different than NOT believing in X, Y and Z. This is one of the bases for modern knowledge. Pose a question and falsify it, then adjust your perspective on reality.

One can not prove that anything does not exist. Evidence can be gathered regarding things that exist. This is sifted and weighed. You could posit a million scenarios for god. Claiming that something exists demands evidence. There is no evidence for god. To control this open-ended situation William of Occam stated that we should not posit pluralities, in other words keep it simple.

Negative evidence for god comes in the form of diversity of spiritual experience. Everyone worldwide is using the same tools to reach the metaphysical but they are all getting different answers through time. Also the answers they get are strongly affected by their geographical location and cultural superstructure. Religion/spirituality is a function who your parents were and where you are in time and geographical location.

So many different takes on god and the lack of evidence relegates all gods (including which ever one we are discussing) to the status of an arbitrary possibility. Why not two gods or why not an inside- out god or why not a sentient Corvair in the sky with a Ralph Nader look-alike ruling at his side? We don't have any way to validate one culture's god over the other culture's god.

This shrinking truth value applied to the god(s) of all these cultures brings the humble person to agnosticism, which on this basis is really an atheism of sorts. I am agnostic about unicorns (technically) but I am also not a believer in them. You are and have been throughout most of your life atheistic/ agnostic with respect to many gods as we slide the scale across geography and in the other dimension, across human history. Just because you pick one god does not let you off the hook about being an atheist/ agnostic with respect to the other myriad of gods that humans have invented.

[pigsteak]

excellent points caribe..which makes my point brilliantly...the best tenable position is agnosticism...