Question, Can you safely thread a rope through that bolt/hanger? If not, do you think people might to tempted to more so than a regular hanger?
Yes, a rope can easily pass through. And yes I think some people would be tempted to thread a rope through them. If we start using them in MV, they will NOT be used as top anchors without chains and/or quicklinks added.
Jim also sent me a beefy top anchor to review that falls into the class of those TRs that don't require untying the rope from your harness to thread the rope through, which is great if you are going to be lowered off. But because rapping off is the responsible method and because setting up a rap means untying anyway, this top anchor doesn't excite me.
I guess because no matter how much we teach and encourage climbers to rap off, many folks still lower off, maybe this anchor makes sense --certainly does for green newbies.
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
"The Chinese insatiable demand for steel is driving the price of steel and stainless steel through the roof. All fasteners -- mechanical, glue-in, etc. are going up in price."
I noticed this. Chinese quiklinks are a couple bucks and say No Human load and the good SS links are 6 bucks.
"
"Everyone should have a plan for the zombie apocolipse" Courtney
1 Some of the biners on the bolt end of my draws have groves worn in them forming sharp edges. I wonder if these edges might cause a problem?
2 Sometimes the sandstone contain larger agrigate (stones) sharp edges. What happens when one of these sharp edges is trapped under the bending bolt/wire?
3 One fall to the right a few degrees. One fall to the left a few degrees. One fall straight down. Saw?
1 Your biners are aluminum, and the bolts are stainless steel. Aluminum will not wear s.s.
2 The developer must, as he does now, choose his placements carefully. The bolt should not bend under normal use.
3 Not sure what you mean here. One of the biggest problems with traditional bolted hanger brackets is that offset loading tends to loosen them. These bolts cannot loosen in that way.
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
What about a biner being pulled up onto the top of the glue-in and getting stuck there during a fall? Most traditional hangers have a small radius (teardrop shape) so the biner slides down to the proper loading place during a fall. These glue-ins seem to have a quite large horizontal projection before it starts bending downward. I could see that being a violent realignment at times maybe causing large torques as well.
how does a developer bolt anything overhanging with glue-ins in an efficient manner?
Ask Piggie and Spoonman. To develop with glue-ins, you must not be alergic to epoxy.
Actually, we are working out less messy ways to install these critters. The best way for keeping overhanging bolts and the epoxy in place until it sets up is to use a brass bushing that I machine specifically for this operation. It jams the bolt into the hole and retains the epoxy from running out. Some developers put a piece of gorilla tape (duct tape on steroids) over the hole and put a tiny slit for the bolt and glue to be inserted. This holds the glue in place. And a piece of tape over the eye of the bolt holds the bolt from slipping out.
Rick
Last edited by weber on Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
TradMike wrote:What about a biner being pulled up onto the top of the glue-in and getting stuck there during a fall? Most traditional hangers have a small radius (teardrop shape) so the biner slides down to the proper loading place during a fall. These glue-ins seem to have a quite large horizontal projection before it starts bending downward. I could see that being a violent realignment at times maybe causing large torques as well.
Good observations. Testing in Germany hasn't shown any problems with falls. In fact, the shape of the loop seems to discourage accidental unclipping better than other hangers. We intend to do a lot more testing before adopting these across the board. A couple of these bolts placed on an overhanging wall and some volunteer whipmasters could give us a better picture of exactly what happens in a big, offcenter-loaded fall.
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
Cool. As far as the gouging on your bolt end biners, I would imaging these would pretty much eliminate that, right? Sharp edged hangers vs. round stock steel? That's pretty exciting. Simple and effective design it looks like. I find it amazing these haven't been around longer.
chh wrote:Cool. As far as the gouging on your bolt end biners, I would imaging these would pretty much eliminate that, right? Sharp edged hangers vs. round stock steel? That's pretty exciting. Simple and effective design it looks like. I find it amazing these haven't been around longer.
Gouging should be significantly reduced. I agree they look great. But we still have a lot of testing to do. Hopefully, no unforeseen bugaboo will crop up.
Rick
We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand. - Randy Pausch
None are so old as those who have outlived enthusiasm. - Henry David Thoreau
Rick:
We have our share of testosterone-driven hot heads in the climbing community, you are the Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi that is balancing The Force.
Unlike some of the posters, I am not surprised at all that the contiguous length of steel is going to outperform the regular expansion bolt. No welds, increased surface area of contact and the increased ability to deform under load should allow for greater resistance to uprooting the fixture. In this new fixture many interactions contribute synergistically to the overall strength of the assembly without an obvious weak point.
Speaking of the weak point, the C atom - O atom bond present after epoxy cures converts over time in an oxidizing environment (such as earth’s atmosphere) to very weak C-O-O-C connections. In other words, ethers age. However the glassy matrix should not allow diffusion of molecular oxygen into the matrix which leaves the interface between rock and resin to worry about. My opinion is that the assembly will probably age to uselessness long after you and I have left the planet. Furthermore the assembly will likely jiggle before it blows, thus warning the future climber not to trust the hanger. The weak link will likely be rock crumbling along the shaft/ epoxy surface from repeated loading on the assembly. Here the asymmetry of the shaft will contribute to the fixture not failing disastrously in one go.
Are there studies on the aging of this epoxy adhesive crossed with its performance over time? In any case I am not worried about these new bolts and I am very appreciative of you.
Arthur
"I am downgrading this thing even though I don't send on TR." Blake while on TR
>A couple of these bolts placed on an overhanging wall and some volunteer
>whipmasters could give us a better picture of exactly what happens in a big, >offcenter-loaded fall.
>Rick
Ha, Ha, may I suggest a large gunnysack full of lentils instead of a human being.
"I am downgrading this thing even though I don't send on TR." Blake while on TR
