mcrib..rhunt is just pissed he is on the DL....you'll have to forgive him.
dogs rock..if you don't like dogs while you're climbing, go buy a gym membership. I don't like ticks and beetles either, but they come with the territory....come to think of it,gumby trad climbers at the crag are also a pain to the eyesight and the ears with their whiney "watch me, this 5.3 XXXX is soooo sketchy"...and uptight sport climbers with their F bombs and incessant spray are poison anywhere in the Red....
geesh, you hypocrites pick the dumbest fights.
Muir Valley Concerns
This thread has got hi-jacked a bit so lets clear something up: whether or not you like dogs at the crags, it doesn't really matter. What matters is, in this case, what Rick and Liz want at THEIR crag and they want dogs to be on leashes. If you don't want to listen to them or feel that it goes against the "ethics" of climbing or something, go climb somewhere else.
Or better yet, why don't you go find a few hundred acres of land with miles of cliff line on it, build trails, spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to develop routes and climb there so that your dog can run around.
Rick and Liz, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for all the time and effort you've put into Muir. I hope that I will be able to show my graditude, in hard labor, for all that you've done if I ever move to Kentucky and can get down more often than once a year.
Or better yet, why don't you go find a few hundred acres of land with miles of cliff line on it, build trails, spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to develop routes and climb there so that your dog can run around.
Rick and Liz, I want to take this opportunity to thank you for all the time and effort you've put into Muir. I hope that I will be able to show my graditude, in hard labor, for all that you've done if I ever move to Kentucky and can get down more often than once a year.
Sand inhibits the production of toughtosterone, so get it out and send.
mcrib wrote:
I don't go to crags where dogs aren't allowed and I don't go to crags with lesh laws becuase my dogs would just bark all day. If that seems irrational pm we can meet and we can kick each other.
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No. That sounds like a considerate attitude. You aren't burdening people that don't want to be bothered by your dog. Thanks.
It's just too bad that so many dog owners think their dogs are God's gift to humanity and their sworn duty is to baptize the world in dog drool, oohing and ahhing about how cute they are the whole time.
ZSpiddy
I don't go to crags where dogs aren't allowed and I don't go to crags with lesh laws becuase my dogs would just bark all day. If that seems irrational pm we can meet and we can kick each other.
***************
No. That sounds like a considerate attitude. You aren't burdening people that don't want to be bothered by your dog. Thanks.
It's just too bad that so many dog owners think their dogs are God's gift to humanity and their sworn duty is to baptize the world in dog drool, oohing and ahhing about how cute they are the whole time.
ZSpiddy
Yeah- those damn ticks and beetles with their incessant barking and running over the rope and making big dust clouds and chasing any wildlife and making their owners call for them at the top of there lungs over and over and over so that the whole gorge knows that somebody lost their tick.
Dogs are good for cleaning up after people that don't bury their big ol' pre-send defecation. Mmmmm. Let's go lick master's face. Hey Fifi...
Dogs are good for cleaning up after people that don't bury their big ol' pre-send defecation. Mmmmm. Let's go lick master's face. Hey Fifi...
Victory Whip in da House. Yeah.
Dogs. Leash. Got it.
So...getting back to the issue of increased traffic.
When I first learned that the Webers were going to open up several new areas to the public, one of my first thoughts (aside from "Kick ass!!") was, "Well, what are they going to do about parking?" I assumed that with increased access there would be increased traffic and therefore a need for increased parking space. And while I understand that increased traffic means increased environmental impact, I had assumed that that impact would be mitigated by the fact that it would be spread out over a larger area. In other words, sure you've got more people, but you've got more space too.
Sorry. I don't want to belittle the Webers' concerns regarding impact. They know more about their land than I ever will. I just found Rick and Liz's reaction surprising given my earlier assumptions.
So...getting back to the issue of increased traffic.
When I first learned that the Webers were going to open up several new areas to the public, one of my first thoughts (aside from "Kick ass!!") was, "Well, what are they going to do about parking?" I assumed that with increased access there would be increased traffic and therefore a need for increased parking space. And while I understand that increased traffic means increased environmental impact, I had assumed that that impact would be mitigated by the fact that it would be spread out over a larger area. In other words, sure you've got more people, but you've got more space too.
Sorry. I don't want to belittle the Webers' concerns regarding impact. They know more about their land than I ever will. I just found Rick and Liz's reaction surprising given my earlier assumptions.
Mcrib, I get it, dogs have been around since the dawn of climbing. I've been climbing at the Red since about 1995 and only in the last 5 years have I seen a huge increase in the amount of dogs at the red and every other place I climb. Yet just as I write that I realize the numbers of climbers has increased a lot too so maybe its just about more people.
B.J., you bring up a great point and something I have thought about and not just with MV. The southern region keeps increasing crags but the parking has pretty much stayed that same.
B.J., you bring up a great point and something I have thought about and not just with MV. The southern region keeps increasing crags but the parking has pretty much stayed that same.
"Climbing is the spice, not the meal." ~ Lurkist
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anticlmber
- Posts: 3393
- Joined: Wed Jun 18, 2003 12:34 am
People that like there dogs to be off the leash is fine as long as a few things are considered.
1) is the dog friendly/aggresive
2) is the dog going to get into everything
3) will the dog dig a bunch of holes. THIS is a huge problem. please don't let your dog do this and if it does, FILL IN THE HOLE.
4) if other dogs show up are the going to run all over people's gear and stir up dust. If so please leash them.
On land where leashs are required....well you should know what to do. Where they are not, it is a judgement call. I've had my share of dogs and still like them. I just hate stupid people with stupid dogs.
And Pigsteak....those are crabs, not ticks.
1) is the dog friendly/aggresive
2) is the dog going to get into everything
3) will the dog dig a bunch of holes. THIS is a huge problem. please don't let your dog do this and if it does, FILL IN THE HOLE.
4) if other dogs show up are the going to run all over people's gear and stir up dust. If so please leash them.
On land where leashs are required....well you should know what to do. Where they are not, it is a judgement call. I've had my share of dogs and still like them. I just hate stupid people with stupid dogs.
And Pigsteak....those are crabs, not ticks.
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