Climbing Permit

[caribe]

Hell with towing deadbeats, install a wheel boot on violators' cars. The towing company or someone would have to come help them out. Signage could be posted to warn folks that if they have not paid, their wheels could be booted. Randomly people coming to the gorge to climb could volunteer a half hour to check vehicles.

I think solutions like this are less good than the climbing community getting behind this purchase. The RRGCC should be vigorously pursuing the purchase of other property. We can't just be a one trick pony and expect respect.

Hugh I was at the meeting. It was great! The level of organization was top-notch. I felt like I accomplished something which is not usually the way I feel when I walk out of a meeting.

[the lurkist]

Arthur,
That is a ghost in the machine freudian slip. Funny.

[Toad]

Hell with towing deadbeats, install a wheel boot on violators' cars. The towing company or someone would have to come help them out. Signage could be posted to warn folks that if they have not paid, their wheels could be booted. Randomly people coming to the gorge to climb could volunteer a half hour to check vehicles.

Hmmmmm. So if a person in the morning boots a vehicle, does the booter wait around all day for the offending climbers to come back to the parking lot if there are no more volunteers for that day? What would the booter charge the offender? The normal day rate? A higher fee for not following the rules? Who would collect the money? How many volunteers would be needed a day? How many volunteers could you count on during the week?

I think the fear of possibly being towed at any time, being out in BFE without a ride, generally F'ing up the day and having to pay an impound fee to a towing company is better motivation to get people to pay a few bucks to visit the preserve. When climbers pay, more land can be purchased.

Let's hear the alternative....

[Toad]

Paying directly or indirectly to climb on public land is not unheard of. The beloved Eldo has both a parking and walk-in fee(http://parks.state.co.us/Parks/EldoradoCanyon/Fees/). Rainier, in a National Park, has a climbers fee of $30 for a yearly pass. There are some in the tourism camp that have been talking for years about making the Gorge a National Park. Heaven forbid what would happen to climbing if that came down?

Maybe not unheard of, but is it justifiable? I have no idea why Eldo can justify it. Do they have trash removal and portajohns?

Rainier I can see. They have the high camp, climbing rangers, rescue, visitor center, etc.

The Gorge as a National Park? I doubt that. The park system doesn't have enough money to run what it already is charged to protect. Maybe if Congress would get it's collective thumb out of it's butt and redirect some money.... In any case, the tourist camp would most likely have very little pull in this one, at least under this president. Although he did create a mighty big national park in the Pacific. Who knows?

[campusboarder]

economics is what you think is right

[Toad]

economics is what you think is right

My right or my other right, Socrates?

[weber]

The purpose of this post is not to suggest or dictate what is right and wrong with climbing access issues, but rather to clarify our position as owners of a large climbing area with free access to the general public. Each area, public and private, is different with its own set of requirements and challenges.

The land that comprises Muir Valley was purchased with the sole purpose of turning this pretty little piece of Kentucky into a free-access climbing venue within a nature preserve-type setting. Climbers are provided with relatively secure parking, access trails, and roughly 260 bolted climbing routes.

Those kind souls who have volunteered to build trails and develop climbing routes at their own expense of time, money, and effort have done so solely for their fellow climbers and not for the benefit of the property owners. In truth, this development actually generates additional expense to us as owners. And, this is okay. It is the way we intended it to be.

One area that needs more volunteer work at Muir is the improvement and ongoing maintenance of our several miles of trails. Much has been done already during the GATHERING Trail Days. A big problem we encountered with a one-day event is that many folks who wanted to help were not available to work on a scheduled trail day.

To allow volunteers to pick times convenient to their schedules, the Friends of Muir Valley group of volunteers is creating an “Adopt-a-Trailâ€

[gunslnga]

well said Rick!!!!!!

[Ascentionist]

If you really wanted to go that route, it wouldn't be that hard. All you would have to do is tell a towing company they can tow anyone who doesn't have a permit hanging from their mirror. It would be in the tow company's interest to randomly check the lots. Wouldn't take any extra work from volunteers or paid people. That's probably not the kind of PR that is wanted for the PMRP though.

The problem with this is that the local towing company is owned by the guy that is the brother in law of the guy that's doing all the break-ins.

Not really, but in Lee County, Kentucky, honesty is not always the most profitable policy.

I wouldn't recommend any course of action that draws attention to climbers as a group from the local population. They don't like you much and see you as a nuisance and a burden and as prey.